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Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?
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Old 04 Jul 2005, 15:45   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?

I've taken a look at the trial rules for these forgeworld models, and I'm trying to make some sense of what I see. Please correct if I'm wrong.

Piranha: $28 For 1 (Min.) Troop Choice
50 pt Skimmer 11/10/10
2 Twinlinked Str 5 AP 5 BS 3 Shots @ 18 (worth 24 pts from drone squadron)
3 Str 5 AP 5 BS 3 Shots @ 18 (worth 30 pts from fw w/ carbines) Can cause pinning!
So basically that's 54 pts of anti-infantry weaponry for 50 pts not counting the mobility of a 12" move and vehicle stats.

Now lets take a look at the upgrades
Optional DL increases chance of survival by 11% (note: that's the stat for hh/df does it still apply?).
Multi-Tracker allows for... what does that change? This isn't already a fast vehicle, so what can you fire w/ it?
Fusion Blaster transforms 3 Str 5 AP 5 shots at 18" into 1 Str 8 AP 1 @ 12". Potential Anti-Tank especially w/ targeting array?
[hr]

Tetra: $30 for 2 (Min.) Fast Attack Choice
120 Pts Fast Skimmers 10/10/10 BS 3
2 Twin-linked Str 5 AP 5 Shots @ 30" (40 Pts essentially from FW)
2 Markerlight Shots @ 36" ((24 pts + 80 pts for pfs in devilfish) or 20 pts from fw.)
Disruption Pods (10 Pts from armory)
So this is 159(or 70) Pts of light weaponry for 120 pts at impressive range which is highly mobile and which has all shots aimed at it reduced in range by 6".

Upgrades:
DL: Increase durability (again, what's the percentage here? can someone do the math?)
Targeting Array (BS 4 Markerlights! I like it!)
[hr]

Can you use piranha's as a type of Piranha of Fury extra protection or w/ static tau?
What do you guys think about these units? Have you ever played with / against them? Are these tournie legal? What do you think about about the value of the markerlights on the tetras. They could be considered to be worth 20 pts from firewarriors sushi upgrades, or they could be worth a heck of a lot more because the 'cheapest source' of markerlights is currently pf's. Comments Please!

The pdf downloads from forgeworld are available here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/PDF/piranha.pdf http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/PDF/tetra.pdf
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Old 04 Jul 2005, 15:55   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?

are you alowed to post them stats or is it only GW one that you cant ?

i have 2 Tetra but no Piranha
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Old 04 Jul 2005, 16:09   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?

I don't quite know what you mean, but these stats are publically available at forgeworld.co.uk. These are not published GW stats. I have never heard of a ban on stat publishing, but obviously it would make sense that GW doesn't want people to post their codexes online.
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Old 04 Jul 2005, 16:52   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?

you cant post GW stats but im not sure about FW ones
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Old 04 Jul 2005, 17:05   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?

Free trial rules should be fine. Obviously not quotes from their published rulebooks!

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Old 04 Jul 2005, 17:08   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?

Please return to the topic at hand. Piranhas and Tetras.
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Old 04 Jul 2005, 17:15   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?

*ahem*

So sorry.

*bows humbly*

Personally, I'm not much for using Forge World models. Mostly due to the cost and the fact you can't use them in Tournaments. But if they are ever made official codex units, I'd definately use them.

The Piranha is an excellent and cheap fire support unit, which decent enough armour to go toe-to-toe with most light to medium infantry. It would also make a good decoy for Devilfishes and Hammerheads. I think the Fusion Blaster upgrade has limited use though, due to the vehicle's slow speed and the weapon's low range.

The Tetra might be useful, for a single game. After your opponant works out how useful they are for quickly marking up his hidden units for Seeker Missiles he'll blow them up on turn one - a task which isn't exactly tough due to their terrible lacking of armour. More of a novety unit - I'd leave markerlighting to regular Pathfinders personally.

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Old 04 Jul 2005, 18:23   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?

And those cost-efficiency calculations aren't very accurate:

First off: point costs aren't linear. A weapon can cost X for one unit, and Y for another. Point costs are realative to a unit's or upgrade's usefulness in relation to the army. Sure, you're getting a lot of weaponry and mobility, but the piranha is mitigated by the fact it is taking up a troops choice, and is *much* more fragile than the troops would be individually, against most armies. Chances are, I don't think the thing can hold table quarters, either, so it loses a bit of it's tactical usefulness.

I'd say the points are pretty fair, if not over-estimated. Forge-World usually tends to err on the side of making vehicles more expensive when they create them.

I'd love to use Tetras, but I don't think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Sure, you get to field markerlights at an overall smaller overhead cost... but you're getting VERY few of them. A full squad of pathfinders in a devilfish may be expensive, but at least you get when you're paying for: Markerlights.

I might squeeze a tetra into a smaller game in which I needed improved chances of a rail-gun hitting, but otherwise, I'd rather just wait for the bigger games to use the pathfinder squad.
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Old 04 Jul 2005, 20:37   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?

I'm aware of that fact, so it can't be a linear comparison. But, it is possible to way the advantages and disadvantages of taking that unit or the equivalent.

Also, one major advantage to taking the tetras is that you do not need to have an additional $30-40 model to bring pathfinders.
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Old 04 Jul 2005, 21:49   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Piranhas & Tetras? Do you use them?

Sadly, the tetras themselves are 30 dollars each. The devilfish can serve multiple roles.

Again, it comes down to the tetras being cheaper, moneywise, and points wise, to put markerlights in your army, but they're one of the least efficient ways to do so. =(

For 60 bucks, you get 2 markerlights, ready to field.
For 60 bucks, you get ~3 or 4 markerlights, while needing 4 more to field them effectively.

60 bucks, 2 markerlights
80 bucks, 8 markerlights
120 points for 2 lights
190 for 8

The thing is, I *really* like the tetra model, and I've been very tempted to field it myself. But when the model is expensive, and when the custom rules are a bit overcosted, I find it hard to justify the expense =(

There really needs to be a more viable option for markerlighting, other than pathfinders.
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