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Suit Advice Vs Wolves
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Old 02 Jul 2005, 14:57   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Suit Advice Vs Wolves

Given the following squad,
1 Crisis Leader TL-Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Hw-MT
1 Crisis Suit Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, MT

in one turn of shooting @ 24" there is a 100% chance of inflicting a glancing hit or greater and a 41% chance of inflicting a penetrating hit (vs a Dreadnought). The problem is, this is rather expensive for a squad designed to take out a dreadnaught. (Although theyíre the only other suits besides a shasíel. So thatís kinda also my anti-tank / heavy infantry) Iím wondering what you would recommend I take besides the missile pods. Flamer and Fusion? Flamer and SG? BC / BC? Iím going to be playing marines for a while, mostly space wolves, so I realize thereís always utility in extra PRs, but my friend is very keen on using flamers against me. Since heís going to try to get as many guys in my face as possible, taking the flamer would help get some extra damage in before the assault. What do you think? For the moment Iím going to be playing on a 100ish scale. Iím thinking of the following for an army. Note: The only real reason that I'm trying to take out a dread with suits is that I just played a game and my lone broadside failed to do squat. He missed 3 turns in a row. Missed completely that is. So if its better to take the suits as anti-infantry and add markerlights (via sushi) to help out the xv88 let me know.

Shasíel Fireknife-7

12 Firewarriors w/ Sushi + Devilfish
12 Firewarriors w/ Sushi + Devilfish

1 Crisis Leader See Above
1 Crisis See Above

XV88 Broadside
Ionhead w/ accessories

That's about 950 in pts.
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Old 02 Jul 2005, 15:32   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Suit Advice Vs Wolves

Seraphim:

Personally, I think you'd be better off with Death Rain pattern suits. Dreadnoughts can be problems, but if you can hit them a few times, they'll go down. Missile Pods are great at this, but really, the twin-linked missile pod is just more reliable. I use missile pods just for this, and a cheap death rain suit definitely pays off against those A12 threats, leaving your big guns to take on the other squads, where they can dominate. The ion cannon is a great weapon for those Marine boys, as a Railgun is just overkill on a Dreadnought, and if you miss with your single shot, you just wasted quite a bit. Versus missile pods are multiple shots, and can be twin-linked and can be used turn after turn, and you can get several of them doing it together, and just focus that dreadnought off the board, leaving your ion cannon to work up against the infantry.

At the 1,000 point level, I'd leave the markerlights. Really, taking markerlights in Fire Warriors teams only truly works out when you have them as stationary squads (such as several troops of static line fire warriors without maximum squad sizes, to take several troops, but also fit in cheap markerlights). I wouldn't do that simply because static Tau are dead Tau against armies like the marines (in general).

I would probably drop the XV88 from the list, and take another Crisis, and rig them all as twin-linked missile pods. They're always useful, both close and far ranged, and always wound easily on the marine boys and can bust transports, dreadnoughts and medium armor pretty well. I'd rather have 6 missile pods to fire each turn than a single railgun any day when trying to kill a piece of armor that is only A12.

Example:

HQ - Shas'el; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-tracker; HW Black Sun Filter
Elite - XV8 Crisis; Twin-linked Missile Pod; Target Lock
Elite - XV8 Crisis; Twin-linked Missile Pod; Target Lock
Elite - XV8 Crisis; Twin-linked Missile Pod; Target Lock
Troop - Fire Warriors x 8; Shas'ui; Devilfish; Multi-tracker; Targeting Array; Decoy Launcher
Troop - Fire Warriors x 8; Shas'ui; Devilfish; Multi-tracker; Targeting Array; Decoy Launcher
Troop - Fire Warriors x 8; Shas'ui; Devilfish; Multi-tracker; Targeting Array; Decoy Launcher
Heavy - Hammerhead; Ion Cannon; Smart Missile System; Multi-tracker; Decoy Launcher; Target Lock

Perhaps you could tell us more about what models you have? It may help in helping you figure out what you'd like to take to the battle. And also, if you've got any limitations, such as not liking Kroot, or something.

Cheers!
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Old 02 Jul 2005, 15:38   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Suit Advice Vs Wolves

Take a team of broadsides, you're bound to hit something with 3 tled railguns. Drop the fire warriors, if he's coming to you you dont need to waste the 160+ points on making your fire warriors mobile when it just means that you'll be losing shots.

You could go either way with this one but I think thats far too many suits (assuming I'm looking at this correctly and it really does say 9 of them) because you could do alot more with fire warriors, and even though their save is worse the 19 fire warriors you can get for the price of 3 fireknives will survive longer and probably do more damage.

try something like this.

3 fireknives
12 fire warriors
12 fire warriors
12 fire warriors
12 fire warriors
3 broadsides (2 target locks 1 multi tracker)

900

That gives you another hundred to put into an hq or just take an ethereal and throw in some upgrades.
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Old 02 Jul 2005, 15:50   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Suit Advice Vs Wolves

I've got 6 suits, 1 broadside, and the parts to convert one more suit to a broadside. 20 kroot. 12 XV15. 24 FW. 2 Fish and 1 HH.
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Old 02 Jul 2005, 16:08   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Suit Advice Vs Wolves

Seraphim:

Any configuration options with the suits, or are they all permanently configured as Fire Knife?
Also - Kroot can be a great addition to this fight, depending if you want to take them or not. So again, any limitations?

Cheers!
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Old 02 Jul 2005, 16:34   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Suit Advice Vs Wolves

Being that I play Space Wolves and Tau, I can say Mal's list is the closet to being good. But I would recommend a few changes. Believe me when I say two to three SW's in your battle lines can do alot of damage.

To answer your question, No Flamer, no Fusion unless it is a Deep Strike Suicide squad to take out some armor.

One comment if the Wolf gets first turn, he/I would be taking out your *ONLY Railgun, I can take some hits off the Ion cannon, But Railguns do hurt. Depending on the SW army, he/I may take one VenDred, two Pred, two rhinos, and one WolfGuard Battle Leader with Jump pack and Melta bombs. (This is taken off my 1000 point list)

With two tanks of AV13 you would need 6's to just to glance off the Ion and 5-6 on Missile Pods, which I like those odds being the wolf player. Which means dead Transports. But this depends on the Wolf army you are facing. He could be more assault type. Me I love tanks and the havoc they cause my opponent.

Priority: the ability to take out armor and transports. (I should not be telling you this since I am a SW player)

My current Tau list has three HS choices:

Railhead
BC, TA, MT, BC, DL * *Burst cannon just because it is more saves for your opponent to roll.

BS x 2

In your case, change out the Railhead for an Ion head. But at least have two Railguns to stop the transposts and it precious cargo. Once you have them walking Use Crisis to trim them down, with FW using their 30" range at the same time, so Lose one of those transports and make one unit static, (hey some FW need to die for the greater good)

My Tau List:

Shas'el FireKnife
Crisis fireknife
Crisis fireknife

FW 12 /sushi
FW 12/sushi

Hammerhead
BS
BS

All that leaves you with about 216 point left to add transports, SS or Kroot. For those 216 I had a Pathfinder team with 3 x RR. All the FW were static so they ended up being the bait. My other recommendation, use your one DF and mount one FW with one squad static

So good luck, I think

WT
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Old 03 Jul 2005, 00:25   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Suit Advice Vs Wolves

Thanks, In the my game, I played on a 4x4 table and I really did not need transports. I think you're right. I should just by the upgrade parts for a hh so that I can play with 2 hh's and static tau. If my enemy is coming to me because they can't shoot for beans why do I need to run to them if I can take shots anyway.

BTW: My suits are not yet glued to a configuration. (Does anyone else find that the weapons fit with friction? esp. when aided with a little predried superglue on both surfaces?)

So I'm looking at:

Shas'el T-MP, PR, MT 97

1Crisis Leader T-MP, PR, Hw-MT 82
1Crisis Fireknife 65

2 Crisis Fireknife 130

FW 12 Sushi 130
FW 12 Sushi 130

Ionhead sms, mt, dl 155

2 BS 200

For 989 pts. Where were those 200 you mentioned coming from?
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Old 03 Jul 2005, 00:35   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Suit Advice Vs Wolves

Is there any advantage to taking 3 squads of 8 with one additional sushi added in? That's 999 pts exactly.
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Old 03 Jul 2005, 00:59   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Suit Advice Vs Wolves

I was using my List to get the points, I can post it if you like. (just did)

I don't really know about using 8 FW, in fact I don't think there is an advantage to it. I do know that just taking 4 casaulties will make you take a Morale roll, plus when you go below 50%, that is no longer a scoring unit. So it is better to use 10 to 12 FW.

WT

( your point for the Ionhead and BS's are off as well, you need to double check your Codex)


Here is my list so you can see where my points are coming from http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...5151#msg145151

Shas'el
PR, MP, MT 85
Cheap el but effiecient

Crisis PR, MP, MT 65
Crisis PR, MP, MT 65
Stealth Suits x 4 120
expensive and fragile, but I love these suits, especially against marines; if you don't have access to SS, change them out for something else. Kroot would be good. I don't use a shaper, I tend to want more of a good model count.


Fire Warriors x11
Sushi x1
Mounted DF , DL 215
this way you don't have to go totally static, this gives you very good mobile firepower and my FW motto when I use the fish, "Shoot, shoot run and shoot"

Fire Warriors x 11
sushi x 1 130
Static FW's, which for me translates to bait

HammerHead Rail Gun
TA, MT, BC's, TL, DL 170

Broadside Suit x 2 150
TL Rail,MT, SMS

Total at 1000


I have used this one the most, I like it. It kills tanks/rhinos good! I would not like to play this list if I were playing my Wolves!

Shas'el
PR, MP, MT 85

Crisis
PR, MP, MT 65
Crisis
PR, MP, MT 65

Fire Warriors 11
Sushi x 1 130

Fire Warriors 11
Sushi x 1 130

Pathfinders x 7
3 x RailRifles
1x Sushi
DF Transport DL 221

Hammerhead
Railgun TA, MT BC DL 165

Broadside TL Rail, SMS 75

Broadside TL Rail, SMS 75

(I think having 3 HS choices is cheese at this point level, I plan on taking out one BS and using the points somewhere else, or finish off my second HH and replace the two BS's with one more HH)

Total points 1006

Remember, these list are by no means game winners. I don't mean to go on with this list thing, but I do want to try to help those who ask for it. These lists work for me and my style of play. When I play I ask myself what I want to accomplish and how I plan to do it. I would suggest going to the http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~leebj/index.html and checking out the tactics there. I don't play total Mech but I use the idea behind it. My favorite unit is the Crisis so I use it constantly, in fact these guys always rack up double their points in all my games, easy! Taking out one rhino, pays for that one Suit!

Pathfinders - do a search and you will find all kinds of stuff that they pretty much suck in small games of 1000 and under. But they worked here.

KEY POINTS which I learned by losing tons of games,

1 TAU are not MARINES they DIE easy!

2 ONE UNIT NEEDS TO BE SUPPORTED BY AT LEAST TWO OTHER UNITS.

3 Don't be afraid to lose one unit for the Greater Good, if you end up on the winning end of skimmish, tough choices but you will see my point soon.

4 MARINES are not Tau but they die very easy to Plasma!

So good luck and play lots of games.

WT
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Fear is the Mind Killer. Fear is the little Death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear and permit it to pass over me and through me.
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Old 03 Jul 2005, 15:51   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Suit Advice Vs Wolves

11 Firewarriors should be 110 points. 120 w/ sushi. Not 130.
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