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What do you want to see in the next codex?
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 07:02   #21 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: What do you want to see in the next codex?

I think that tau are a little like sisters, good at what they do but overpriced for what you get, thing is that is supposed to be mitigated by the markers (or faith).


The consensus seams to be for some new battle suit weapon systems, such as?

rail rifles
markerlights
Flechette projector (flamer replacement that dose the same as the FD in combat)
or poison gas

xv9's (xv98)

possibly as a true light dreadnought/walker rather than the traditional battlesuit to reflect its larger size. Possibly with either more hard points, the ability to take an unlimited number of systems or the ability to TL a weapon using only one hardpoint then take a second of the same type (possibly TL as well). The ability to take an ion cannon on it.

The other thing I picked up on was for some new auxiliaries. What kind?

what about mole people?
gets enhanced cover saves, deepstrikes, gets a form of bust (either high Rate Of Fire, TL, rending or long range) moves only underground (so can pop in and out of reserves) and can use this to retreat from an assault.
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 09:47   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: What do you want to see in the next codex?

I would personally love to see...

XV-8's with T5, BS4, or 3 W any of them would be great.

marker light carriers with more survivability such as the "Stealth" USR

cheaper seeker missiles, Pathfinder Devilfish's come with a few standard, and/or the ability to fire seeker missiles off of vechs that are off the table.

battle suit weapons cheaper, or allow for more shots.

A real reason to take Shas'Vre or hell Shas'ui for that matter.(other than the stupid idea of a +1 attack,!@#$ you GW, what were you thinking?)

special characters that actually mean something. (screw the ones we have, they are all half assed anyway.)

Free marker lights on Shas'ui that count as networked.

Free grenades

the stand and shoot rule from Fantasy

XV-9's and XV-6's

Manta's... I can dream.

Tau aircraft in general.

little loin cloths in the Kroot kits, so I dont have to ignore the fact that my Kroot are Eunuchs.

effective anti-marine units, the Vespid though cool and some what useful are still over priced.
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 10:32   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: What do you want to see in the next codex?

I think their equipment is on the inside, Leadsponge. Like lizards!
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 10:35   #24 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: What do you want to see in the next codex?

gue'vesa, or a change in vespid.

Give the player the chance to switch neutron blasters for claws, count them as rending.

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Old 24 Oct 2009, 10:51   #25 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: What do you want to see in the next codex?

gue'vesa are a terrible idea. they cant fill any niche that fire warriors or kroot can't do themselves. redundant and pointless.
ditto with d6 skyray reloads. i'm not going to take a model for which i dont know how many bloody shots im getting next turn!

what does deadnight want?

commanders that are more than bs5 elites with commander abilities. hey, space wolf commanders get sagas, IG leaders get orders, and so on. whether it is special tactical abilities along the lines onf montka (some way to co-ordinate and focus fire) or kaouyon would be interesting.
get rid of the utterly gimmicky wargear. its either pointless, unfluffy (stim paks combat drugs are for dark eldar) or just too worthless to consider.
On crisis suits in general, i'll comment on the elite options.

bodyguards- whether etherial's FW guards, or a commanders suits should be bs4 as standard. make 'em better than regular suit shas'vre and shas'ui

etherial. utter waste of points. if im going to take something that will make half my army run away if he dies, i want more than twin-linked morale. make the army stubborn for a start, and give him access to leadership powers that "inspire" nearby squads to act above and beyond. Kinda like xenos miracles...
also there is the "by the will of the tau'va" idea where they have an ld save instead of an armour save...

regular suits. reduce the base cost to 20. increase weapon ROFs. plasmas to assault 2, replacement of burst cannons with ion rifles (str5 ap4 assault 4 24"). replace flamers with heavy flamers. make fusions multi melta equivelants.
crisis suits have numverous problems. they are supposed to be mobile heavy hitters, but they have not been updated in 3rd ed. back then, they were a unique unit could move whilst counting stationary, and would ALWAYS get off 2 shots at RF range or 1 at long range. this was the era when if you moved, you got one shot, period.
so their firepower is problematic. their survivability is problematic - they are so expenive because the assumption was they shoot and scoot into terrain. but terrain dont block LOS any more.
third problem is range. I've seen a lot of posts saying "tau long range is a lie. tau are a short range shooting army like sisters of battle". check warseer. this trash is there. but its true. tau have to get in close to be effective, which is utterly against the fluff, hence me holding to weapons that are longer ranged and are not RF based.
third thing is to change the support systems. target lock. multi tracker. targetting array. all fine. drone controllers need a shake up. buy a drone controller with 2 gun drones for 20pts. swap for shield drones for free, or upgrade to rail rifle drone or markerlight drone for a few points.
other support systems? how about a comms node? you've got UAVs etc feeding up to the minute battlefield intel to the squad. game effect? if they dont shoot in their shooting phase, and DSers or outflankers turn up, they get a free shot off at them (but only against one unit)
How about squad level disruption fields? confer "stealth" or a constant 4+ cover save?
similarly, give them flechette dischargers, acute senses, and hit and run/bonus to retreating out of combat as standard.

Stealthsuits:
make 'em cheaper. they're terrible. make them more stealthy for a start, like harlequins, and give them their own unique special weapons, rather than hand-me-downs from crisis suits.

Fire warriors:
Heavy 2 rifles. assault 2 carbines. not going into reasonings here. sufficeth to say i am right. cheaper devilfish, possibly with seekers coming with it for free. photon grenades as standard. also have options for drone controllers (as above) comm nodes, disruption fields etc.

Kroot:
Buy a shaper, buy evolutionary adaptations. chameleon (stealth), nightsight (acute senses), poisoned talons (poison 4+) nymune upgrade (fleet), enhanced reflexes (i4), ork-hybrids (t4) etc. also allow kroot to swap kroot rifles for kroot hunting rifles (sniper rifles) for free and the option to mount them on kroot-horses. i like barbarian cavalry. t3(4), cavalry rules, +10pts each.

Gundrones:
fine with assault 2 carbines

vespids:
give them templates. like they were supposed to have. i dont mind if the blasters go to s4 because of this.

pathfinders:
stealth - "masters of battlefield positioning"
as per grenadiers, they get different loadouts for different pts depending on the mission package you buy them.
eg recon - 90pts. they get the devilfish, scout move, and +1 to reserve rolls (pulling an army forward as their its eyes and ears)
spotter team. 100pts this squad gets access to unlimited seekers. i hate skyrays. they should not be on the battlefield. their support pieces. but i like their missiles. so, make it fluffy, and let pathfinder teams spot for them. and yes, its balanced.
heavy gunner team. +10pts/pathfinder. everyone gets a railrifle with integrated targetting array.

Skyray: gone - its integrated into the above pathfinder option. #
Sniper drone team: gone. integrated directly into the list.

broadside: generally quite OK, but id like multi trackers to be part of the base points cost, and for BS support system allowing them to target each weapon at a different target. rails at the 'fex, SMSs at the gaunts.

hammerhead: reduce the points cost of the chassis. increase some of the upgrades. And i want HH railguns to be a bit more powerful. come on, we such in cc, we are squishy, have average ld, our firepower is not much greater than everyone else. and yet our big guns should be. i remember tau when they first came into an era where everyone had str4 guns and str9 anti tank. tau had str5, and str10 guns. Now, everyone has str10 guns. So tau need a little upgrade on their sto make them the best. i figure something along the lines of rolling twice to penetrate, pick the highest.
also, ion cannons to become heavy 5 at least.

Special characters:
tough as nails shas'o in a regular crisis suit. a tau patton, essentially.
"new" commander. forget shadowsun. im thinking samael - dude in a suit with 2 plasmas, counts as a jetbike, 4+ inv etc etc.
etherial HQ. cooler than regular HQs, like njal and regular rune priests. possibly aunshi? give him the "honour of fiovash" - honour blade with a 3+ inv save, and rending. give him a special honour guard - the "survivors of fio'vash".
IG and SMs get a tank commander. i want a suit "ace". a shas'vre upgrade for any suit squad.
a kroot "sharpe". they're light infantry skirmishers. and shaper-sharpe. enough said.

change the fluff. less on mind control, more on the naive. i want the darkness in the tau to be a strain on the tau'va - do they stay idealistic, or do they go down the path of killing everything that could be an enemy...
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 10:58   #26 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: What do you want to see in the next codex?

*Raises glass to Deadnight*

I agree with everything he has written.
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 11:13   #27 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: What do you want to see in the next codex?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadnight
gue'vesa are a terrible idea. they cant fill any niche that fire warriors or kroot can't do themselves. redundant and pointless.
ditto with d6 skyray reloads. i'm not going to take a model for which i dont know how many bloody shots im getting next turn!

what does deadnight want?

commanders that are more than bs5 elites with commander abilities. hey, space wolf commanders get sagas, IG leaders get orders, and so on. whether it is special tactical abilities along the lines onf montka (some way to co-ordinate and focus fire) or kaouyon would be interesting.
get rid of the utterly gimmicky wargear. its either pointless, unfluffy (stim paks combat drugs are for dark eldar) or just too worthless to consider.
On crisis suits in general, i'll comment on the elite options.

bodyguards- whether etherial's FW guards, or a commanders suits should be bs4 as standard. make 'em better than regular suit shas'vre and shas'ui

etherial. utter waste of points. if im going to take something that will make half my army run away if he dies, i want more than twin-linked morale. make the army stubborn for a start, and give him access to leadership powers that "inspire" nearby squads to act above and beyond. Kinda like xenos miracles...
also there is the "by the will of the tau'va" idea where they have an ld save instead of an armour save...

regular suits. reduce the base cost to 20. increase weapon ROFs. plasmas to assault 2, replacement of burst cannons with ion rifles (str5 ap4 assault 4 24"). replace flamers with heavy flamers. make fusions multi melta equivelants.
crisis suits have numverous problems. they are supposed to be mobile heavy hitters, but they have not been updated in 3rd ed. back then, they were a unique unit could move whilst counting stationary, and would ALWAYS get off 2 shots at RF range or 1 at long range. this was the era when if you moved, you got one shot, period.
so their firepower is problematic. their survivability is problematic - they are so expenive because the assumption was they shoot and scoot into terrain. but terrain dont block LOS any more.
third problem is range. I've seen a lot of posts saying "tau long range is a lie. tau are a short range shooting army like sisters of battle". check warseer. this trash is there. but its true. tau have to get in close to be effective, which is utterly against the fluff, hence me holding to weapons that are longer ranged and are not RF based.
third thing is to change the support systems. target lock. multi tracker. targetting array. all fine. drone controllers need a shake up. buy a drone controller with 2 gun drones for 20pts. swap for shield drones for free, or upgrade to rail rifle drone or markerlight drone for a few points.
other support systems? how about a comms node? you've got UAVs etc feeding up to the minute battlefield intel to the squad. game effect? if they dont shoot in their shooting phase, and DSers or outflankers turn up, they get a free shot off at them (but only against one unit)
How about squad level disruption fields? confer "stealth" or a constant 4+ cover save?
similarly, give them flechette dischargers, acute senses, and hit and run/bonus to retreating out of combat as standard.

Stealthsuits:
make 'em cheaper. they're terrible. make them more stealthy for a start, like harlequins, and give them their own unique special weapons, rather than hand-me-downs from crisis suits.

Fire warriors:
Heavy 2 rifles. assault 2 carbines. not going into reasonings here. sufficeth to say i am right. cheaper devilfish, possibly with seekers coming with it for free. photon grenades as standard. also have options for drone controllers (as above) comm nodes, disruption fields etc.

Kroot:
Buy a shaper, buy evolutionary adaptations. chameleon (stealth), nightsight (acute senses), poisoned talons (poison 4+) nymune upgrade (fleet), enhanced reflexes (i4), ork-hybrids (t4) etc. also allow kroot to swap kroot rifles for kroot hunting rifles (sniper rifles) for free and the option to mount them on kroot-horses. i like barbarian cavalry. t3(4), cavalry rules, +10pts each.

Gundrones:
fine with assault 2 carbines

vespids:
give them templates. like they were supposed to have. i dont mind if the blasters go to s4 because of this.

pathfinders:
stealth - "masters of battlefield positioning"
as per grenadiers, they get different loadouts for different pts depending on the mission package you buy them.
eg recon - 90pts. they get the devilfish, scout move, and +1 to reserve rolls (pulling an army forward as their its eyes and ears)
spotter team. 100pts this squad gets access to unlimited seekers. i hate skyrays. they should not be on the battlefield. their support pieces. but i like their missiles. so, make it fluffy, and let pathfinder teams spot for them. and yes, its balanced.
heavy gunner team. +10pts/pathfinder. everyone gets a railrifle with integrated targetting array.

Skyray: gone - its integrated into the above pathfinder option. #
Sniper drone team: gone. integrated directly into the list.

broadside: generally quite OK, but id like multi trackers to be part of the base points cost, and for BS support system allowing them to target each weapon at a different target. rails at the 'fex, SMSs at the gaunts.

hammerhead: reduce the points cost of the chassis. increase some of the upgrades. And i want HH railguns to be a bit more powerful. come on, we such in cc, we are squishy, have average ld, our firepower is not much greater than everyone else. and yet our big guns should be. i remember tau when they first came into an era where everyone had str4 guns and str9 anti tank. tau had str5, and str10 guns. Now, everyone has str10 guns. So tau need a little upgrade on their sto make them the best. i figure something along the lines of rolling twice to penetrate, pick the highest.
also, ion cannons to become heavy 5 at least.

Special characters:
tough as nails shas'o in a regular crisis suit. a tau patton, essentially.
"new" commander. forget shadowsun. im thinking samael - dude in a suit with 2 plasmas, counts as a jetbike, 4+ inv etc etc.
etherial HQ. cooler than regular HQs, like njal and regular rune priests. possibly aunshi? give him the "honour of fiovash" - honour blade with a 3+ inv save, and rending. give him a special honour guard - the "survivors of fio'vash".
IG and SMs get a tank commander. i want a suit "ace". a shas'vre upgrade for any suit squad.
a kroot "sharpe". they're light infantry skirmishers. and shaper-sharpe. enough said.

change the fluff. less on mind control, more on the naive. i want the darkness in the tau to be a strain on the tau'va - do they stay idealistic, or do they go down the path of killing everything that could be an enemy...
It depends upon how you play, but to say that gue'vesa are utterly pointless is at best ignorance for not playing with them.

I dont know about you sir, but they can be played well.

----plus it would give an excuse to GW to push already made imperial guard models. Economically speaking, it just makes sense.

Vespids are worthy combat assault units in theory, with their Initiative, and toughness. (right now, they only seem to bug marine players in my experience. That space marine toughness is a good stall. )

Give them rending options, it would complement their speed very well.

and stealth suits, terrible? my good man, they have done nothing but always be a thorn to the side of every player I play against, be it marine, eldar, or imperial. Str 5 fire can chink tanks, as well as chink marines.

The fact that they can take drones to act as shields, makes up for it to an extent.
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 12:50   #28 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: What do you want to see in the next codex?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
*Raises glass to Deadnight*

I agree with everything he has written.
If its beer, kopparburg pear, or rekorderlig, Deadnight is happy to drink it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepsi
It depends upon how you play, but to say that gue'vesa are utterly pointless is at best ignorance for not playing with them.

I dont know about you sir, but they can be played well.
never said they can't be played well. im saying there is no point playing them in the first place. why should GW go to the expense of producing a brand new unit, whose niche is already filled by the two existing troops choices?

why would i, as a player, take gue'vesa over fire warriors? fire warriors have better firepower, better armour, better mobility.
why would i, as a player take them over kroot? kroot have better ws, str, attacks, and a bigger gun. and for 1 point more.
then factor in the changes i would make and gue'vesa become even more irrelevant.
gue'vesa seem to fall into some kind of void and attempt to fill some kind of niche between the two, but fail utterly.

Quote:
----plus it would give an excuse to GW to push already made imperial guard models. Economically speaking, it just makes sense.
i'd rather GW pushed tau models, and remade the tau range, than flogging another army's core unit. if i want guardsmen, i'll play guard. its as simple as that.

Quote:
Vespids are worthy combat assault units in theory, with their Initiative, and toughness. (right now, they only seem to bug marine players in my experience. That space marine toughness is a good stall. )
tau dont do cc, remember? its one of their core weaknesses.

Quote:
Give them rending options, it would complement their speed very well.
No. pointless. they were originally designing with istant-killing flamer templates. id rather stick with that, than go with an already overused mechanic in an army that should not have it.

Quote:
and stealth suits, terrible? my good man, they have done nothing but always be a thorn to the side of every player I play against, be it marine, eldar, or imperial. Str 5 fire can chink tanks, as well as chink marines.
they've never been anything other than free VPs or KPs to me. their too limited with firepower that is too short ranged (effectively within assault range - the amount of times i've seen infiltrated stealths taken out in the first turn is ridiculous), said firepower is also redundant as i have enough of it with my fire warriors, they take up valuable elite slots for units that i actually need (crisis suits), their "stealth" abilities are laughable, and they are far too easy countered by counter infiltrators, vehicles, fast infantry, outflankers etc to be worth anything. like i said, reduce the points. if they are "that" good, you should be applauding me for wanting them to be cheaper...

Quote:
The fact that they can take drones to act as shields, makes up for it to an extent.
no it just gives them a bigger footprint, and makes them cost too much.


tau are terrible overall in their current incarnation. they are hopelessly underpowered against the new codices. the tournament results since 5th has come out will back me up on this. they have no edge. Anything tau can do, guard or eldar can do better, in a lot of ways without any of the weaknesses (i even saw a recent post on it here).

Tau are the Meg of 40k.

they, along with necrons are the armies that most seriously need a complete, total and utter overhaul, reworking and rebalancing. i know too many people who have simply dropped tau altogether (including myself) because they just are not competitive any more.
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 17:53   #29 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: What do you want to see in the next codex?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidstyler
I think their equipment is on the inside, Leadsponge. Like lizards!
Exactly. I would know. ;D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadnight
Tau are the Meg of 40k.
^I also agree

In the fluff I want to see Shadowsun and Aun'shi returning from the Farsight conclaves to report that all the bad rap about Farsight's all been just an overblown lie - he's "just a bit homesick but is otherwise perfectly normal." They don't tell him about his statue back at home. Lol, the anti-climax would just be hilarious.
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 18:28   #30 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: What do you want to see in the next codex?

Personally, i want to see army based upgrades kinda like SMurf chapter traits. For example to represent mont'ka tactics you can have 1 xv8 squad used as a troop choice, or having FW honour guard without an ethereal or something
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