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The Underrated Shas'o
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Old 18 Jun 2005, 04:26   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default The Underrated Shas'o

Around here, I hear the Shas'el being used over the Shas'o. I don't understand why. You get so much for 25 points. 1 WS, 1 BS, 1 W, 1 A (not useful), and 1 L. This enhances the usefulness of him and makes plasma rifles hit practically every time. And it makes him more survivalable. Is there something I don't know about the Shas'o that makes him worse than the Shas'el, beside points.
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Old 18 Jun 2005, 04:35   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Underrated Shas'o

Not really. It's just that people like taking the 'el over the 'o simply because of the points difference.
Mose people here play at the 1k-1.5k range most of the time, and some, around 400-750. At this range, the use of an 'o is questionable, as you can get two more FWs for the price, or three kroot, or many other things, depending on the army.
Oh, and don't discount the fact that people are using them. It's just that people don't alway say what they're actually doing.
Although, the general concensous I think, is that the extra 25 points is a big gamle, as it improves the offensive capabilities of a single model, but defensivly, the extra wound isn't an issue as the Crisis are LasCannon magnets, and they get no save, and the extra wounds don't help. It's basically also the say of "don't put all of your eggs in one basket". People don't want to gamble in this way, as it's pretty risky >_>.
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Old 18 Jun 2005, 04:53   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Underrated Shas'o

Though I think the shas'o gets a bit of a hard time, I also admit that the arguments in favor of the 'el have a lot of merit.

I'll list some in brief:

Firstly: Many consider the increase in weaponskill, wounds, and leadership to be inconsequential. Most suit users avoid assault like the plague, and the difference one wound makes isn't terribly helpful when the suit is in a situation to take wounds in the first place. Many prefer to hide him behind his Independant Character status, making the leadership bunk as well. If your prefered play style has you hiding and running, the ideal situation is to be evasive, rather than spend points on brute force.

Secondly: Why not use the suit in mele? Or equip the suit for multiple roles? People sometimes do. Usually in the form of what are called "Multi-O's", taking advantage of the high BS, and using three weapons systems. Unfortunately, the cost of this IS prohibitive, and the Tau are an army that very much favors specialist units working in tandem, rather than a single "be all end all" unit, that finds it's abilities split to the max.

Thirdly: You're putting a lot of eggs in one basket. Though it might be nice to think you can hide him behind a wall of other units, and take advantage of IC, you'd be supprised how quickly that wall can come down in the face of certain enemies: Tyranid can run around the wall and assault you, While Eldar, Dark Eldar, and other Tau, tend to adopt a "Do it in one turn, or don't do it at all" philosophy, which will see your shielding unit being crushed in a single flow, followed by heavy weapons fire on the suit.

Fourth: They're insta-killable. When your single suit costs almost as much as your hammerhead, he makes for a prime target for those las-cannons, if your skimmers get taken out of commision. If you start adding shield generators to your Shas'O, things get even more cost prohibitive.

Fifth: The extra BS sounds great, but the truth is, if you give your suit a role and specialize him, you can get even BETTER odds of hitting, by twin-linking your Shas'El's weapon of choice. AND it will only cost you 5-10 points, instead of the 25.

I personally like to plan for the unexpected, and realize that it MAY be prudent to use suits in close quarters combat. That knocks the shas-o up a bit in my book. He's wrestled Lictors to the ground, held off non-power weaponed assault units... But ultimately, he ended up being too much of an investment, 'specially for lower point games.
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Old 18 Jun 2005, 06:02   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Underrated Shas'o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Behemoth
Around here, I hear the Shas'el being used over the Shas'o. I don't understand why. You get so much for 25 points. 1 WS, 1 BS, 1 W, 1 A (not useful), and 1 L. This enhances the usefulness of him and makes plasma rifles hit practically every time. And it makes him more survivalable. Is there something I don't know about the Shas'o that makes him worse than the Shas'el, beside points.
A re-roll of a Ballistic skill 4 is much more valuable than hitting with a 16% better chance. He's not really worth the points at all. All suits should be trying to fill one role, and outside of very large games I think he's rotten points. 1 Extra wound won't make him more survivable. Anything beats him in close combat, any strength 8 weapon knocks him out regardless of wounds and outside of that you shouldn't be letting him be shot to begin with.

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Old 18 Jun 2005, 06:41   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Underrated Shas'o

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Originally Posted by ShadowDeth

A re-roll of a Ballistic skill 4 is much more valuable than hitting with a 16% better chance. He's not really worth the points at all. All suits should be trying to fill one role, and outside of very large games I think he's rotten points. 1 Extra wound won't make him more survivable. Anything beats him in close combat, any strength 8 weapon knocks him out regardless of wounds and outside of that you shouldn't be letting him be shot to begin with.
Yep, in my bitter experience the extra wounds make no difference. Being an IC is your best protection, but when surrounding units are gone, one Krak missile and he's toast. If you got an extra point of Toughness instead of WS for your Shas'O I reckon more people would consider using one. Yesterday I played against CSMs, using the Forgeworld Shas'O'R'Ymr suit and rules, (basically a Shas'O with shield gen and twin Plasma). He was liquidising anything within range, and if that was rapid fire range, that's virtually 2 guranteed kills per turn, but he was taken out by a Krak missile, failed his inv save and then 4 wounds were gone in an instant death horror.
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Old 18 Jun 2005, 06:48   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Underrated Shas'o

IMHO,

BS 4 means you must twin-link, while BS 5 means you can use two weapons and multi-track. In this case, the Shas'o become two crisis teams in one unit; for 25 points you gain a 30-point model and weapons. True, you can be insta-killed, by why leave your commander vulnerable when you can jump-shoot-jump.
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Old 18 Jun 2005, 08:29   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Underrated Shas'o

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Originally Posted by RCanine
IMHO,

BS 4 means you must twin-link, while BS 5 means you can use two weapons and multi-track. In this case, the Shas'o become two crisis teams in one unit; for 25 points you gain a 30-point model and weapons. True, you can be insta-killed, by why leave your commander vulnerable when you can jump-shoot-jump.
You have to pay 25 points for the increase in accuracy, where as you pay half the weapon's cost over to twin link it(cheaper than 25). Besides, twin linking BS 4 is more accuracte than BS 5. If you fancy your suit using three weapons, knock yourself out and use an O. But I don't think any situation ever warrants taking 2 BS 5 weapons.

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Old 18 Jun 2005, 08:39   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Underrated Shas'o

Burst Cannon and Missile Pod vs Tyranids/Orks?

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Old 18 Jun 2005, 10:38   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Andromidius
Burst Cannon and Missile Pod vs Tyranids/Orks?

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Anyway, another reason members here take a Shas'el over an Shas'o is fluff. As I take a Shas'el because I play O'Shovah, so if I was to take a standard Shas'o as well then not only would that be too many points spent on HQ, but it would mean I have two Shas'o's in a battle, which doesn't seem right to me, not fluffy at all. After all many don't see why two Shas'o's would turn up in a battle (unless it's huge), whereas it would be far more likely for a Shas'el. Then of course there are all the reasons already listed by members here prior to this post.

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Old 18 Jun 2005, 11:24   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Underrated Shas'o

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCanine
IMHO,

BS 4 means you must twin-link, while BS 5 means you can use two weapons and multi-track. In this case, the Shas'o become two crisis teams in one unit; for 25 points you gain a 30-point model and weapons. True, you can be insta-killed, by why leave your commander vulnerable when you can jump-shoot-jump.
In the game I referred to as an example, the Shas'O was the last surviving unit on the board and wherever he jumped to would lead to either HtH or being shot at- I opted for being shot at- he was creamed. It was versus an entirely infiltrating CSMs force, so I was unfortunately in CC on his turn 1. :-\ I will probably end up using the suit as a regular Shas'El with twin Plasma, I was just using the Forgeworld rules out of interest.
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