[Ekiel]

So this was my 1000 point army:

HQ: Shas'el with bodyguards. All had burst cannons plasma rifles with targeting arrays, 2 shield drones, and 4 gun drones.

Troops: 2 squads of 12 Fire warriors (8 rifles, 4 with carbines) and 2 gun drones. With team leader and BK.

2 Squad of 10 Kroot for outflank.

Elite: 1 twin linked fusion suit with targeting array.

A squad of 4 stealth suits, 4 targeting arrays.

And I was facing off against my friends 1000 point space marine army:

1 generic space marine captain with command squad,
1 tac squad with missile launcher and flamer,
1 scout squad with sniper rifles,
2 drop pod assault squads with flame thrower,
1 drop pod tech marine with single servitor

I was whipped from the board at the end of turn 7. I found out that unassisted (no markerlight support) fire warriors are almost useless. I do realize that the mixed squad thing is not ideal, but I was attempting a semi footslogging style of game play. And from this I learned, always keep troops in a transport! Also, when your 324 point HQ doesn't show up till turn 5, and then mishaps and ends up where your opponent wants, just hand it in. The worst luck ever! My fire warriors, with a typically 50% rate of hitting, and dying for that matter, hit with about 25% accuracy and died with about 65% death rate.
It just have just been the worst luck ever, but I think I just decided to never ever ever play devilfishless (is too a real word) again. The more I play, the more I realize how reliant on crisis suits I am. Plasma rifles though expensive, are practically a must on a squad of suits. This can apply to any type of enemy too. Sure worst case scenario, only a horde army, but there is usually some type of big -n- ugly to shoot at.
My appologies, but I just had to vent and share my horrible experience. My first time ever being cleaned from the board.

[Nasir Al Din]

Originally Posted by Ekiel

So this was my 1000 point army:

HQ: Shas'el with bodyguards. All had burst cannons plasma rifles with targeting arrays, 2 shield drones, and 4 gun drones.

Troops: 2 squads of 12 Fire warriors (8 rifles, 4 with carbines) and 2 gun drones. With team leader and BK.

2 Squad of 10 Kroot for outflank.

Elite: 1 twin linked fusion suit with targeting array.

A squad of 4 stealth suits, 4 targeting arrays.

And I was facing off against my friends 1000 point space marine army:

1 generic space marine captain with command squad,
1 tac squad with missile launcher and flamer,
1 scout squad with sniper rifles,
2 drop pod assault squads with flame thrower,
1 drop pod tech marine with single servitor

I was whipped from the board at the end of turn 7. I found out that unassisted (no markerlight support) fire warriors are almost useless. I do realize that the mixed squad thing is not ideal, but I was attempting a semi footslogging style of game play. And from this I learned, always keep troops in a transport! Also, when your 324 point HQ doesn't show up till turn 5, and then mishaps and ends up where your opponent wants, just hand it in. The worst luck ever! My fire warriors, with a typically 50% rate of hitting, and dying for that matter, hit with about 25% accuracy and died with about 65% death rate.
It just have just been the worst luck ever, but I think I just decided to never ever ever play devilfishless (is too a real word) again. The more I play, the more I realize how reliant on crisis suits I am. Plasma rifles though expensive, are practically a must on a squad of suits. This can apply to any type of enemy too. Sure worst case scenario, only a horde army, but there is usually some type of big -n- ugly to shoot at.
My appologies, but I just had to vent and share my horrible experience. My first time ever being cleaned from the board.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I'm not sure you're looking for suggestions but perhaps we'll end up in a discussion. I would highly suggest avoiding spending 1/3 of your points on one unit. Conside, for example, if you had barebones'ed your hq and had two Ionheads on the board. I personally don't like to rely on XV8 suits as it feels too much like I'm exploiting. That's just my opinion though, doesn't mean it *is* powergaming. A huge bonus for your army would be at least one vehicle. Be it Warfish, Railhead, etc. it would give you 1: a barrier to assaults, 2: firepower. Now, if you're trying to use 2x Kroot squads to outflank, that's a strategy I've not played because it never seemed intelligent to try to outflank with a squad that moves 6". I only *ever* use fished FWs or Suits.

My Suggestions:
Keep rifles on all your FWs and fish 'em, drop points off the HQ (and kroot squad #2) for the fishies. Maybe drop a kroot squad and toss a few hounds in the other (way better at cc). That's most of what I'd do... Just though i'd share xD

[MaleOpener]

Though "bad luck" had some part in it, your 1k list wasn't built for the task at hand.

Here is what I would've done...

1. HQ - Your crisis have the best B skill in the Tau force, so use that to your advantage. Arm them with a MP/PF/TA/HW MT, and have them in a nice spot to pepper enemy units.

The BG is exspensive, and the points are best used elsewhere. However, I do run 2 BG with a HQ in my force but they are specialized.

2. You get three elite slots, and it's wise to fill them all. Your TL'ed fusion suit could be increased to a team of 2 or 3. Such a team would be devastating. Another crisis team could be TL'ed MPs, or another PF/MP combo. I use FB/PF myself. Stealth suits have a number of uses, as anti-troop or a mobile ML unit. You could add a leader with a ML, plus a HW DC with 1 MD.

3. You seem to be missing FA choices. At 1k points, you should have at least a team of PFs. They should be 6 to 8 strong, and their devilfish should be given a disruption pod. You can angle their DF, so it somewhat blocks LoS of your opponent.

4. When taking FW teams, they all should be armed with their pulse rifle. Devilfish are a good investment, and should be equipped with a disruption pod as well. The FWs can now capture objectives, or reach a cozy spot, and fire your opponent to pieces. Again, angle their devilfish to block LoS of your opponent. Are you loving disruption pods yet?

5. At 1k points, you should have taken a hammerhead. Not only can it blast tanks apart, it has a submission which chucks anti-troop pie plates. Give it the 2 burst cannons, multi-tracker, and the disruption pod. Now you have a fast vehicle which can still fire all its weapons, it can move out of harm's way, move into a better firing position, and the DP gives better protection from any kind of weapon.


These are but a few tips to start you off. Remember to load up on MLs, throw DPs on your vehicles to use them to block LoS of your opponent, and since Tau vehicles are skimmers you can fire underneath them.

If I came off a little harsh, I didn't mean to sound like it.

[juraigamer]

It sounds like you got assaulted by those deep strikers he had. While the devilfish is good for shielding troops, keeping troops close enough to both support each other and give less spots for deep striking is a must.

Burst cannons and missiles vs marines? Nah drop the cannons for plasmas, you will notice a difference.

Defiantly stick with one gun for the fire warriors, one squad of rifles and one squad of carbines work well, since you can keep the carbines in front/side and pin assaults down.

You could also drop a squad/reduce the numbers of kroot and give marker drones/lights to your stealth's, seems you want to hit more and this is a good fix.

[Shasel_Ahab]

Seems kinda like a lack of vehicles. And I agree with MaleOpener: D-Pods are standard equipment on my vehicles ^-^.

Mobility (and hiding in 'fishies) is what keeps Fire Warriors alive to do what they do best. Combine fire with other squads in Rapid-Fire symphony . I've downed a 15 strong squad of 'Crons and their Lord who decided to VoD right into my killzone. Only used 2 Markerlight hits and my favorite 'El (PR&CIB) other than some decent squads of Fire Warriors and a few 'fish guns. Fire Warriors don't suck, they have the best basic troop gun in the game and are decently survivable *-CC* because of their 4+. Keep the faith mate 8).

[enderwiggin]

I have a few suggestions for the lists.

One, swap out the stealth suits. For around/practically the same costs, you can field XV8's better equipped to do dirty work. If you insist on keeping Stealth suits, it's mathematically proven that (in general) it's a better idea to get more suits before upgrading the BS of a few with TA's. Essentially, you get the same amount of hits in the end and you have more wounds.

However, consider a three man team of BC, MP, and MT equipped suits. 150 pts nets you 9 Str 5 shots and 6 Str 7 (at twice the range). This is the same amount of fire as 150 points of Stealths except 6 shots are much better at everything. In addition to this you have a better toughness and your firepower stays pretty level for longer.

I won't get into the HQ, but you should really look into alternative builds. With your lack of AT weapons in the list, a huge chunk of your points (and good AP weapons) are being held within that one unit.

Take into consideration a Hammerhead at 1000 pts. I'm personally surprised that you don't run into more issues with armor without Rail Guns... But every gamer has had a different experience, so I won't hold it against you.

I too have found Firewarriors to be largely useless without ML support. Because of that, I generally don't play with large squads. Also, I don't take PF's at games with points values like this, but they are the first thing bought at 1250+ pts. Part of playing the army for me. :-\

Just to make insure you that I'm not sniping at your list building skills, here's one of my basic 1000 pt lists, it's pretty much a "take all comers" list. I'm sure you'll find flaws or builds you don't care for the same as I have with yours.
[hr]
Shas'El (TA, PR, CiB, HWMT, HWDC + shield drones) : 130 pts

X2 XV8 (with TLMP, flamer) : 94 pts

X1 XV8 (with PR, BC, MT): 58 pts

X8 Firewarriors- 80 pts
X10 Kroot- 70 points
X10 Kroot- 70 points

Hammerhead (BC's, Railgun, MT, DP) : 165 pts
Hammerhead (BC's, Ion Cannon, MT, DP) : 130 pts

X2 XV88's both with A.S.S./or TA's (depends on how superstitious I am that week), TL upgrade, HWTL, HWDC + shield drones. : 200 pts

Total cost: 997
[hr]

If I were tooling it against the Space Marines your buddy brought I'd drop the Railgun to an Ion Cannon, drop a single broadsides (and the HWTL from the Team leader) and with that 115 pts saved combined with my leftover 3 points bring another two BC, PR, MT suits. That brings me right back up to an even 1000 pts then. Not to mention tons of space marine melting plasma and Ion love. :P

[MaleOpener]

EW, has some good points, but I don't agree with the Ion Cannon and taking out stealth suits.

1. ICs are wonderful, but you will get 2 kills most of the time, and struggle against tanks unless you can position yourself to its rear (forget a LR). Railguns can chuck out pie-plates, and I have brought a 10man tact down to 2 or 1. Then, in you next shooting phase, blow away a tank. In my opinion, you just get more bang-for-your-buck from a railgun.

2. Stealth teams (mine's named Ziva), though exspensive, are wonderful! I like to wiggle them into a cozy spot, and blast away at anything that comes by. I have taken a unit of 5 bikers, down to 1 or 0.

Those are my opinions. :-*

[Shasel_Ahab]

Yeah, once again I have to agree:

My opponents swear at Stealthsuits, but I swear by them.

Even in my newb-ish days of yore my XV25s were the last thing standing against hordes of Orks or 'Nids. IMO they can't be beat for survivability (or maybe I'm just really good at rolling 3+'s).

[Ekiel]

I thank you all for the discussion that came about. My rant came about after numerous tests with troops, which I will definitely field in a different way next game. I do agree with enderwiggin about no pathfinders at this point level. And one thing I had totally forgot to mention was I started my entire army in reserves, and was really hoping for better luck with my HQ's arrival.
Another thing is I don't like making lists designed to beat just a faction, especially in friendly games. It's my opponents 3rd game ever :P. And honestly, him winning will keep his interest in the game ;D.
In retrospect, I definitely should have equipped my kroot with hounds, removed the second squad, and probably trimmed some fat from my HQ to spread point's around more wisely.
And the lone fusion suit, was my plan for enemy armor, which only consisted of drop pods >. What good is a single fusion suit against infantry...? Not very past his 1 shot before being gunned down.
I do agree with everybody, I think I'm going to always bring a hammerhead of sorts to every game. However you arm them, they can deliver a lot of punishment and receive equally.
Again, thank you all and I hope anybody reading this post will learn from my epic fail :P.