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What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat them.
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 06:49   #1 (permalink)
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Default What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat them.

i was just wondering, what should I be using to defeat an Eldar army. If possible I would like to be flexible, so I don't have to have too many army lists. It would be also good if I was told what to watch out for.
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 11:06   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat the

Their armor is low on average, so just take massed shots. You will need something to deal with wraithlords though.
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 12:24   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat them.

Ion Cannons. Railguns are just overkill (and have little extra effect on Eldar Power Fields anyway).

Smart Missiles are also a good idea, so you can shoot any pop-and-shoot Vypers that try to stay out of your Line Of Sight.

Stealth Teams will be extremely annoying for Eldar to take out - take advantage of that.

Definately take Distruption Pods on your Hammerheads - Eldar weapons are mostly extremely short ranged, so this will make them suffer.

Other then that, massed Fire Warriors will butcher must Eldar troop types without much trouble.

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Old 17 Jun 2005, 12:39   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromidius
Definately take Distruption Pods on your Hammerheads - Eldar weapons are mostly extremely short ranged, so this will make them suffer.
Explain to me the logic here. I thought disruption pods were only effective for guns with longer than 24" range.
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 12:59   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat them.

Indeed. But the Eldar's main AT weapon - the Bright Lance - has a range of 36". So all you have to do it stay 37" away and you'll never be fired at by Guardian support platforms (since they can move 6" and still fire). It also forces Vipers, etc to move alot closer to your army to get a shot off, making it less likely that they'll be able to cower in cover (and brings them into range of the Pulse Rifles).

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Old 17 Jun 2005, 13:08   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat the

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromidius
Ion Cannons. Railguns are just overkill (and have little extra effect on Eldar Power Fields anyway).

Smart Missiles are also a good idea, so you can shoot any pop-and-shoot Vypers that try to stay out of your Line Of Sight.

Stealth Teams will be extremely annoying for Eldar to take out - take advantage of that.

Definately take Distruption Pods on your Hammerheads - Eldar weapons are mostly extremely short ranged, so this will make them suffer.

Other then that, massed Fire Warriors will butcher must Eldar troop types without much trouble.

~Andromidius
A 7 (Ion cannon) glancing a 12 isn't great odds. Missile pods are a much better idea because you get more shots for much cheaper. I also don't see your smart missiles touching a Vyper that is dodging around. The 24 inch range combined with the fact your tanks are trying to be 37 inches back makes that difficult.
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 13:33   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat them.

True, but those Vypers have to get close to fire at the Hammerheads to fire in the first place (since most Vipers are anti-tank in my experience), leaving them open for you to move your Hammerhead 12" forwards and still firing everything. That 24" is then effectively 36". If the Viper could shot you, you can now shoot back most of the time (if your measurement is decent).

I know S7 isn't especially goot again Armour 12, but S8 isn't much better (which is what the Railguns will be reduced to against Wave Serpents and Warwalkers - the two most common Eldar vehicles). And Since Ion Cannons get 3 shots compared to the Missile Pod's 2 (and at BS4), I don't really see any problems there.

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Old 17 Jun 2005, 18:57   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat the

Tyrehire:

The Eldar are a great opponent for the Tau. Every weapon in our arsenal can be used quite lethally against them, unlike some of our other power armored foes. There are a few weapons which shine greatly against the Eldar and work as a "do-it-all" weapon against them (because it kills their vehicles, their infantry, etc, with only one exception). That is the Missile Pod. This weapon will be your golden ticket to everything Eldar and if you twin-linked it, you're golden.

As mentioned here already, the Railgun solid shot will be pretty much useless, except against our one exception, which will always be the Wraithlord. The solid shot of the railgun is pretty much always reduced to S8 when firing upon their vehicles, which nullifies the usefulness of a having a S10 weapon in the first place. This leaves a squad of XV-88 Broadsides to be pretty much shooting at twigs, unless there is a Wraithlord out there to really be effective against, otherwise we may be firing S8 glances at skimmers which doesn't really cut it (though it's the only thing the XV-88 can do, other than waste their mighty guns on Guardians or something on the ground with a cover save). The railgun mounted on the Hammerhead, however is quite useful, because of the submunition plate--which totally butchers anything Eldar that is not mounted in a vehicle. The difference is that they may have cover saves (of 5+), but you can still nullify that with a markerlight.

Now, the missile pod is the next best weapon for destroying the fabulous Eldar skimmers. It's not as much strength as a railgun, but it's comparable due to the strength being nerfed to 8. The missile pod also has more shots. If we twin-linked it, they become more accurate than railguns (or on par with accuracy with XV-88's) and if guided, they're near perfect of course. Missile Pods are always useful, because they're not nerfed, they have great range, they have multiple shots and they effect every single vehicle and model in the Eldar line up (with the sole exception being the Wraithlord, but even then, you can still damage it on a 5+ which isn't that bad actually). So once the missile pods have destroyed the skimmers, they're still perfect for slaying even their larger and heavier infantry, such as Reapers (who fall to missile pods way too easily).

So, do we spend all our points on Railguns as if we were fighting big armored tanks like the Guard? Or do we stock up on mobile twin-linked missile pods, which do the job even better, for less points, and more spread out in the army list? Let's look at it:

Railgun S10 (or S6 submunition) (68% accuracy on a Hammerhead, nerfed to S8; 75% accuracy on XV-88, nerfed to S8)
Missile Pods (50% accuracy when not twin-linked on normal XV8's or up to 68% and 84% on Commanders, or 75% when twin-linked on normal XV8's and higher on HQ's)

The missile pod is not nerfed in any way, and the strength difference is only 1 point due to our Railguns being nerfed down against the Eldar vehicles. We do however, retain our AP1 effects, which are also nullified by skimmers (but not war walkers) since we can only ever glance their skimmers anyways as long as they moved (which they do). The missile pods on the other hand, have 1 point less strength by way more shots and they can cause much more damage in the long run.

3 twin-linked missile pods will output 6 shots at S7, with 75% accuracy on a normal XV8. That's very decent, as if we were shooting at a Wave Serpent with A12, we would hit 4 or 5 times (75%, 4.5 times, but decimals don't exist) and then glance her on a 5+ (33% roughly) for 1 to 2 glances which can be expected of our hits. All we need is a single glance, but our possibility or potential to glance more, is greater.

A single railgun solid shot will output a single shot at S10 but nerfed to S8, with a 68% accuracy on a hammerhead and a 75% accuracy on an XV-88. Again, if we fire at the Wave Serpent (or Flacon if you wish) with A12, we're hitting only once if we roll our 3+ or once again, if we roll a twin-linked 4+. This only allows for a single hit, at S8 which will have a 50% (4+) chance to glance the tank. So our massive cost for a single shot, is hardly as good as a little crisis suit with a missile pod.

Now to compare a squad of 3 XV-88's to the 3 XV8's with missile pods, we have 3 solid shot railguns hitting at 75% accuracy, which are nerfed to S8. That's 2 shots on average that will hit, and a 50% chance to cause damage, so 1 will cause damage on average, which results in a glance only most likely. This is still less than what we can do with a single squad of missile pod toting Crisis, which costed cheaper and are more mobile.

The moral of story - missile pods do the trick, better. And they effect everything very nicely. If you take railguns, the hammerhead version is your friend because of the submunition, otherwise, the railguns are only really useful against things like the Wraithlord.

Eldar are very shooty, very fast, or even very combat oriented. However, they're quite weak and very vulnerable to our weapons. We can also deny line of sight to many of them, making them pretty useless against us in many ways. Their weaponry is very good at killing either very good armor save armies (marines) or against very weak armor save armies (guard), but we are the in between since we have a genearl 4+ armor save on our basic troop - making their weapons not exactly perfect for taking us down, without wasting their starcannons and brightlances on fire warriors or Kroot. Otherwise, our armor is good enough to stop their weaker shooting weapons, or their weapons are over powered and too few to kill the amount of Fire Warriors we can take. Our suits on the other hand are vulnerable, but only really to their high powered guns, which we can hide from with our jet packs. Our basic weapons really rip into eldar, wounding almost everything on 2+ and ignoring the armor save. Stealthsuits are a shining example of a unit which can really take the Eldar, however as the Eldar are so fast, they can easily get us into combat due to things like fleet of foot. So you may not wish to dance the lines with Stealthsuits as you would marines, but at least the stealthsuits aren't going to be seen so easily. Fire Warriors and Kroot on the other hand are a great unit to quickly show up (or hide in terrain) and just peck at the Eldar units or come up in a Devilfish and unload that way as well. However, it is our template weapons that will make the biggest holes, and if we have pathfinders, we can ensure those holes are made with no saves what-so-ever.

Fire Warriors are great against these Eldar, but not in massive massive amounts. And if they're mounted in the Devilfish, it's all the better. Otherwise, hanging out in cover and taking advantage of your 30" range can be a good way to begin. Really though, your XV8's will be taking the star roll, since a slow Eldar army is a dead one against you and everything that is not mounted is easily dispatched with any weapon in our arsenal.

Also, remember that bright lances and star cannons are quite wasted when they are hitting the warm bodies of Kroot. It's almost a pleasure to remove them as casualties to those weapons in that way. So taking Kroot is a great idea, as their weapons really hurt infantry and in combat, you're not so terrible as you can hit and wound them easier than they can hit and wound you (although they probably will strike first in many cases). But your Kroot can win combats easily if they're supported by other units which fired upon the squads first to soften them up and break them apart a bit.

Watch out for their fast moving, non-vehicular units, such as their Warp Spyders. These are fast and deadly to you, but easily fought against--Stealthsuits are perfect for the job as are the humble gundrones. Anything that moves fast that either cannot be shot down easily or isn't much of a threat that moves quickly will be a good way to deal with the Spyders. Eldar Bikes move fast, but their saves are nothing to sweat, as just a single round of pulse rifles still bring them down regardless of an invulnerable save (they're not quite marine bikes with T5). And again, a missile pod will do it all if you run short of pulse rifle.

Gundrones are also extremely useful against the Eldar, as you can deep strike and pin down their battery weapons pretty easily. If you break their numbers to half strength it makes it even easier, since most of those squads are small to begin with. Pinning on Ld8 (or 7) is not glamorous or guaranteed, but it does happen, and not all that rare. Gundrones also make a great extra attack against their vehicles since you can deep strike and send quite a few glances into their rear armor (sometimes against open-topped armor in the case of Vypers).

The biggest thing is to simply keep your main shooting units out of combat with any Eldar unit that moves too fast. Focus your fire to remove targets completely, or cripple them to the point of uselessness. Keep a decent distance, but don't try to play a ranged shooting fight against someone with the same range but more guns. Cut down his vehicles, and stop his fast moving assault class units and you'll be able to tend to the rest easily. Keep everything in your list an option, but make sure each is assigned a goal and stick to that. You can surgically pull apart your opponent's army and seal the victory with a few simple weapons. Don't forget your missile pods! By the way - speaking of missile pods, commanders with missile pods are just down right nasty since they can take Ind. Character status and fire very accurate missile pod shots, which eat through Vypers and vehicles with ease, without worrying about much return fire due to not being able to be targeted due to Ind. Character status. You can use that to your advantage to take down the easier targets which do not require a lot of shots (vypers, war walkers) while your elite Crisis take on the bigger tanks (wave serpents, falcons).

Good luck and let us know how it works out for you!
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 22:14   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat them.

Thank you everyone that replied, but i have another question about the Eldar. Are they good in close combat, or are they nothing to really worry about?
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 23:34   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's best to use against an eldar army, so I'm flexible enough to beat the

Tyrehire:

Eldar can be very good in close combat. They have quite a few selections of very good hand-to-hand specialists. Close combat is the last place you want your Tau, so it is always something that you should worry about. Eldar can be fast, with fleet of foot, and quickly lock you down in combat, where you're not shooting, which means you're going to be shot off or finished in combat. Even if you won combat, simply from having better armor and larger squads, it would slow your shooting phase too much. Avoid combat with Eldar.

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