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Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?
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Old 28 May 2009, 16:30   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?

I'm wondering what the difference and pros/cons of using one over the other.
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Old 28 May 2009, 16:48   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?

X points

For the most part an 'O is often felt to be overpriced for what it provides, this in 1500 points or less we tend to go for an 'El since you have the best qualityrice ratio...plus it frees up somep oint for more wargear or a Fire warriors or two.
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Old 28 May 2009, 16:49   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?

shas`els are more budget minded.

For about 5 firewarriors, you get a nice ld 9, 3 hits before death, and options for a power armor, drone commander.

Likewise, you can outfit them with the same weapons crisis suits can, and in addition can take bodyguards and special issue. You can control them by deepstrike etc...

Tau commanders arent meant for combat. Thus, the shaso and shas el are about on par at the beginning.

However.

Shas`os have a nice solid ld 10, which can be placed on other units, can take the same options, and can take quite a few hits before deaths. They end up being a bit expensive in the long run, if you like intricacy.


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Old 28 May 2009, 17:21   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?

Shas'o has one more wound, higher initiative, better leadership, and a higher ballistic skill.

However, the common consensus is that the 'el is a better choice. The most important stat difference between the 'el and the 'o is the BS difference - and that can easily be compensated for with a targeting array. The 15 points difference between a O and a El+TA is several pieces of wargear for Devilfish, etc.
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Old 28 May 2009, 19:39   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?

While the Targetting Array does nullify the BS difference (closing the gap between the two with a mere 15 points), however it does come at a cost, namely a VERY valuable hard point.

I don't know about the preferences of the others, but personally, if I field a Commander, I damn well want to make sure he'll live up to his task. Despite the impressive array of weaponry at their disposal, Commanders are... Squishy. Having the same toughness as a marine, means that even a single lascannon, meltagun or similar str 8+ weapon can take it out in one shot.
With Independent character rules changed, and Shield Drones not being as effective as they used to be due to wound allocation, I've come to appreciate that a Shield Generator is mandatory for any offense-based Commander.

Note that a Targetting Array falls within the same category.. You don't give one to a Commander that's going to hang back (say because he has a Positional Relay), but to one you want taking an active role, preferably toting something like a Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster or if the mood suits you, an AFP. But because such singleshot weapons tend to only result in single kills, it's often a good idea to give them a secondary weapon with a hard-wired multi-tracker, to make full use of that maxed out BS.

This is where I want to choose an 'O over an 'El in anything over 1000 pts because with 2 weapons, an 'El can have EITHER a Targetting Array, OR a Shield Generator. The 'O on the other hand can take both quite easily, as it doesn't need the Array.

Sure, a well equipped Shas'O will often push over 100 pts (my standard loadout is 145, even), but in my opinion it's well worth it, as it'll live a lot longer and deal out a greater amount of damage, thus having a much more lasting impact on the game.

Truthfully, I don't really see why in a 1500 pt battle anyone would rather not invest less than 10% of their resources in a Shas'O, when a properly equipped Commander can have such a big impact on the game.
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Old 28 May 2009, 21:57   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?

If you assume that a crisis commander must be BS 5, then the difference between the two is 15 points. Those 15 points get you access to the third hardpoint, another wound, another point of leadership, and another stat buff or two (memory is a little hazy). I generally feel it's worth it, but most of my current lists have one of each.

Reasons to spend the points for an 'o include the need for a 3rd hardpoint (positional relay, shield generator, vectored retro-thrusters, or a third weapon); survivability (extra wound); or if you want to use him as a "ninja'o". The ninja'o is a tricked-out shas'o who actually seeks out melee combat with some opponents but uses vectored retro thrusters to jump out then shoot and charge again. (Unfortunately, targeting of Independent Characters and the need for an initiative test to Hit and Run have made the ninja'o build less viable in 5th edition). Properly equipped, a shas'o can actually hold his own against 2 or 3 space marines, or he can do very well against guardsmen, ranged-specialized eldar, and possibly even necron warriors. I wouldn't suggest trying ninja'o against orcs or tyranids (with the possible exception of a smallish termagaunt squad or some biovores).
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Old 29 May 2009, 04:18   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?

Cyven: Fair enough. I grant the utility of a shield generator, and that an 'el forces you to choose between a SG and a TA. That said, if you don't want a shield generator, then an 'el is an economical choice.
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Originally Posted by Col.Angus
I picture the Ethereal looking out the window of the Devilfish from his seat: "Hey this isn't the way to Applebee's?! Where are you guys taking...Aw man, a battle?! Aw, you guys are total dicks, I swear! I'm still wearing my bathrobe! Can I at least have a gun? What do you mean you don't have any extra? What should I do, hit Khorne Berzerkers with my symbol of office? Man, you're gonna be sorry if I die... dicks."
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Old 29 May 2009, 14:13   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?

Honestly, I never send my El out unsupported and with cover so easily attainable in 5th you shouldn't have to worry about an invulnerable except in CC.

Personally, I write the Tau unit off once the dedicated CC stuff piles in shield generator or not.
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Old 29 May 2009, 14:20   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?

Quote:
Originally Posted by enderwiggin
Honestly, I never send my El out unsupported and with cover so easily attainable in 5th you shouldn't have to worry about an invulnerable except in CC.

Personally, I write the Tau unit off once the dedicated CC stuff piles in shield generator or not.
Heh I guess we have different playstyles then :P
My 'O varies from being bait, to teq killer, to assaulter and while I do try to be in cover, due to its proximity to the enemy, this is not always a possibility :P
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Old 29 May 2009, 14:27   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Difference between using Shas'el or Shas'o Commander?

I use mine for Meq, Teq, and hoard. Whatever is needed really.

Aurora's can do it all aside from AA (though I guess a PR and Str 5 gives some help, but it's not the primary function at all) in my army.

Heck, I'm sometimes just invulnerable and FNP saves for some kroot.
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