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Drones KP
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Old 18 May 2009, 12:14   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Drones KP

so i've been going through all the posts and i'm still confused.

Do disengaged drones give KP's? i read this errata

Q. Do all of a vehicle’s drones need to be
destroyed before the vehicle gives up its full
victory points?

A. Disengaged Drones have no effect on how
many victory points the vehicle gives up. This is
based solely on the condition of the actual
vehicle model.

As saying drones do not give KP as they do not effect the total KP a vehicle can give. Is this wrong?
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Old 18 May 2009, 12:21   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones KP

Yes.

It talks about the old 4th Edition victory point, not the 5 Edition Kill point...which have different mechanic.

Some say that they are worth 0KP, I and several other argue they are worth 1KP since, once disengaged, they form a new unit and 1 unit=1KP.

So a Devilfish with gun drone will be worth up to 2KP if you kill the fish, then the disengaged drones.
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Old 18 May 2009, 20:38   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones KP

Unfortunately, strict RAW is pretty clear that the drones are a separate killpoint from the vehicle that carries them. This makes no sense to me, and it's one of the many indications that the killpoint system is a bad idea. A house rule at my LGS is that the gun drones do NOT give a separate killpoint, but you can't use them to contest an objective either; they're just a couple of extra weapons floating around. It rarely matters, fortunately, as most of the tau players run smart missile systems instead and just avoid the whole question.

If you want a more reasonable accounting of who killed how much, suggest to your opponent that you use victory points or 'Ard Boyz style accounting.
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Old 18 May 2009, 21:42   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones KP

It's pretty retarded but rules as written they do count as a kill point. So in Kill points Marneus Calgar and his honor guard retinue are equal to a pirahana and the 2 drones riding on it's wings. Kill points is the worst.
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Old 18 May 2009, 21:45   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones KP

After playing with sms and drones for awhile, I definetly recommand the drones over sms, even if there is a free KP!
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Old 18 May 2009, 22:38   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones KP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneguard
Yes.

It talks about the old 4th Edition victory point, not the 5 Edition Kill point...which have different mechanic.

Some say that they are worth 0KP, I and several other argue they are worth 1KP since, once disengaged, they form a new unit and 1 unit=1KP.

So a Devilfish with gun drone will be worth up to 2KP if you kill the fish, then the disengaged drones.
Boneguard, feel free to disagree with me on this:

the rules specifically state that when the drones dissengage they form their own unit, but the rules do not specifically say that they form a seperate unit, unlike the rules for pathfinders, where their devilfish is considered an obligatory seperate unit. The main reason (in my mind) that the drones become their own unit is in the event of a flat out movement, in which case the drones would not be able to keep up. It is typical for me that the drones only disembark when their vehicle is destroyed, and then remain near their vehicle.
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Old 18 May 2009, 23:01   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones KP

Doesn't it say that they are treated as passengers? So even if the Fish is destroyed all they do is either take the pinning test or on an explotion take a str 3 hit?

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Old 19 May 2009, 00:21   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones KP

Tau drones in a transport are weird. They "fire as part of the vehicle", but they "are treated as passengers if the vehicle is damaged" (Tau Codex). They fire at the same target as the vehicle's weapon unless the vehicle has a target lock, but if a vehicle uses a markerlight counter then the drones need their own (Tau FAQ). In my opinion, they're kind of the worst of both categories. Their only benefit over being considered a vehicle weapon is that you can fire them in addition to the burst cannon at cruising speed and that they can not be killed by a Weapon Destroyed result. Both of these are minor, and #2 is really a disadvantage more than an advantage. They have no benefit at all over normal passengers except that they have, in effect, their own fire point in the vehicle. But at least regular passengers with a fire point can shoot at something other than the vehicle's target.

For kill point purposes, anything that is capable of functioning independently is its own killpoint. Wargear like familiars or drones attached to a battlesuit can not detach so they are not killpoints. Combat squads can detach so they are. Devilfish drones can detach and function independently of their vehicle, so they are a killpoint. The fact that I'm making this argument does not mean that I think it's a sensible rule; it just means I think it's a clear one!

For most purposes, the drones act like passengers in the transport except that they can't get back in during battle. Oddly enough, with the relaxing of dedicated transport restrictions, the drones could climb into the back of the devilfish and ride around, but then they wouldn't be able to fire.

Here's a related drone question: If a devilfish has drones in the front recesses and a squad of 8 pathfinders with 2 more attached gun drones, and the vehicle explodes, how do you roll for wounds? Do you roll 2 dice for the vehicle drones, then 10 for the passengers inside, or do you roll 12 dice total, then assign wounds to the three groups (vehicle drones, pathfinders, and pathfinder drones) and then roll armor saves? I would think passengers are passengers and you would just roll 12 dice, then roll pinning checks for the two units separately.

@hardcore: Doesn't "their own" unit mean "separate" unit? I can't think of any other reasonable definition.
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Old 19 May 2009, 01:53   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones KP

Knightperson put it so elequently.

I will only add that Gundrone can disembark at anytime from the devilfish (or Hammerhead/skyray/piranha) and act independently from it. They do not have to maintain coherency with the 'Fish (but must between the two of them)...So indeed Seperate unit thus a second kill point if both drone bites the does.
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Old 19 May 2009, 02:14   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones KP

drones from devilfish are fantastic, they have the ability to beat guardmen in H2H! Also annoying when they hop off, go behind leman russ and blow it up
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