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Tactics against Imperial Guard?
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Old 13 May 2009, 00:29   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Rexburg, ID
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Default Tactics against Imperial Guard?

It seems the new Imperial Guard is pretty bad-A with the lumbering behemoth rules etc... Anyone have any good advice on taking them out these days? I'm working with:

2 hammerheads
1 Devilfish + 8 pathfinders (2 with rail rifles)
1 broadside
3 XV8
3 XV25
1 XV8 commander
24 Firewarriors
12 kroot
a butt load of drones that come in every thing above
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Old 13 May 2009, 00:49   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tactics against Imperial Guard?

Well, if they squadron them, LRs would be able to destroyed on a 4+ on the vehicle damage chart (well, until the last one, anyway).

Basically, I would say templates and anti-tank will be the best anti-Guard method. So, Hammerheads anyone?
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Old 13 May 2009, 02:15   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Tactics against Imperial Guard?

I haven't played them since their new 'dex came out, but I'll let you in on some tactics that work well for me.

Template weapons - flamers, AFP's and submunition rounds. Other than Ogryn's, their infantry is equivalent to ours, and generally w/ a save that is negated by all the above weaponry.

Concentrate your fire. Their squads are usually fairly large, so just taking small chunks of various units per shooting phase is not really doing anything detrimental to them, try & take @ least half of the target squad per turn.

Broadsides - IG can come to the table w/ a stupid amount of armor, and the Leman Russ is a truly formidable battle tank. Don't count on being able to make it to their soft rear armor, a good Guard player knows the LR is weak in the rear & will make sure to protect his pricey tank. Make sure you come to the table prepared to end these threats early, or you will soon have demolisher cannons obliterating your lines - not a pretty sight. :'(

You seem to have a pretty well rounded force, tho I would definitely suggest more XV88's if you are going to be fighting IG on a fairly regular basis, @ least one full squad w/ A.S.S.'s and probably shield drones if you have the pts. XV8's set up in Helios configurations are good, as are Fireknives. The Helios can do some tank/transport hunting and can take down heavy infantry when the chance presents itself. Your two HH's are good, once they help end the armor threat, they can start laying down pie plates on the guardsmen. Stealth teams are nice to out-flank & start taking down their heavy weapons teams. Be sure & put your PF's in a place where they can support the majority of your army, that way when you really need to take down that LR, or that squad of Ogryns you can get it done.

~Sunscreem
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Old 13 May 2009, 02:47   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tactics against Imperial Guard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
It seems the new Imperial Guard is pretty bad-A with the lumbering behemoth rules etc... Anyone have any good advice on taking them out these days? I'm working with:

2 hammerheads
1 Devilfish + 8 pathfinders (2 with rail rifles)
1 broadside
3 XV8
3 XV25
1 XV8 commander
24 Firewarriors
12 kroot
a butt load of drones that come in every thing above
Oh, you got this easy!

Burst Cannons on the Hammerheads, take Target Lock. Now you can hit the infantry when they get close, and use the big guns (I assume railguns) to take on the tanks.

Valkyries and Vendettas are surprisingly squishy, even after turbo-boosting. Just as with any IG vehicle, they lack a good BS.

Make the Devilfish a Warfish/Smartfish. Give it SMS, target array, multi-tracker and/or disruption pod if you want (they will be shooting the meltaguns in units at it).

The Leman Russ tanks are also pretty scary, able to move 6" and still fire the same way we do, but disruption pods are you friends. With a disruption pod, think this through: it's a 50/50 chance he's hitting you in the first place, after that its a 50/50 chance you'll negate it. Taking more just means less infantry to worry about, and more tanks in a limiting squadron to destroy.

The Deathstrike Missile is an Orky thing and is relatively easy to stop with a Deep Striking anti-tank unit of suits.

All the smart IG players I've come across go with either:
1. Mobile Infantry mass
2. Line Infantry mass

The mobile masses bring a lot of squishy Chimeras to the board. This protects the IG of 5+ armor from general shooting, and gives them a 12" movement. They may be accompanied by a Leman Russ, but only one, that will be placed in a good position (behind/in cover) to take shooting from long-range anti-tank weapons. This further helps protect the Chimeras.

When you destroy even 3 Chimeras, now there's 30 models on the ground, and since they don't count as moving next turn, can shoot the heavy weapons, and there's still 3-5 more coming. The IG player will try to unload them all at once and produce a blinding screen of las fire, assault weapons, or whatever he has planned, supported by Chimeras. It will take you forever to get rid of them if objectives are being played.

They might be assisted by new Heavy Sentinels (a rare sight anyway) that will simply bring out even more targets.

Against mass line-infantry, it's the same thing, just that each Chimera is replaced by a whole other unit of Guardsmen. Again, may be supported by a single Leman Russ or similar threat.

These smarter players typically understand that while 1 lasgun will annoyingly flicker in your face, 100 of them will kill you with the blinding power of the sun. The best way to fight the new IG is with combat, which we Tau aren't very... well... good at. Instead, our weapons generally wound on a 2+.

I do not suggest taking Kroot, unless they are out-flanking and able to get in grips with a unit of Guardsmen.


As always, with any 40k match, just focus fire, focus fire, focus fire (as Sunscreem said). Don't divert some shots to the Leman Russ and some to the infantry. When you have 2 Hammerheads with Burst Cannons, shoot both railguns at the infantry, or both at a tank, until it blows up. Shoot all the Burst Cannons at a single unit until it is wiped out or the threat is removed. Then move on to the next one. Guard armies specialize in surviving shots that are spread around and doing heavy damage back, simply because each unit is so versatile.
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Old 13 May 2009, 07:42   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tactics against Imperial Guard?

u know what i did i once i sneaked in a farsight and made the ig player concentrate fire on my hammer head s who are in cover, i sneaked in on farsight up to to them and since all assault on tanks counts as rear armor i d6+d6+5str on him and killed a entire tank squadron.

by the way i would appreciate if anyone would email me to tell me if they can deep strike fasight?
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Old 13 May 2009, 17:27   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tactics against Imperial Guard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
It seems the new Imperial Guard is pretty bad-A with the lumbering behemoth rules etc... Anyone have any good advice on taking them out these days? I'm working with:

2 hammerheads
1 Devilfish + 8 pathfinders (2 with rail rifles)
1 broadside
3 XV8
3 XV25
1 XV8 commander
24 Firewarriors
12 kroot
a butt load of drones that come in every thing above
the new guard codex allows the IG to 'mob up' (I think that's what it's called) or something like that, what it's called isn't important, what it does is. It allows the IG infantry squads of 10 and their command squads, to become one single unit (unit coherency applies). it is up to the player to do this, and can be bad (exploited) but in most cases instead of losing 3-5 victory points per troop choice they (IG) only lose one. This is good (for you) in that now instead of targeting 3-5 seperate targets you only have to target one.

The great rule to remember is that guardsmen die from anything the Tau have, assuming that the Tau can wound the guardsmen.

something that you have to be aware of is the guardsmen also can take a medic which allows them to feel no pain (it's like the Necron special rule) and roll a save even if hit with an unsaveable wound.

As stated earlier XV88 are a Tau's best friend when facing armour (especially in the quantity that the guard can bring) therefore you might consider taking a 3 broadside squad rather than a single, and give them either target arrays or ASS and take a Shas'ui with target lock (incase you need to split your fire). Also I agree with the statment about templates being effective, but you need to think of how many templates you want. I think that you could do very well with only 1 hammerhead (to drop submunition) and your XV88s in backup (if he has deep strike units then you will want to surround your XV88s with some kroot to keep them from being assaulted). A key question is: what are you arming your 3 XV8 with? the XV 25s are great just keep them on the JSJ tactic (this will keep them alive the entire game as guardsmen will never range them) you may even want to go with 6 instead of 3. For your command suit make him a shas'el and give him an airburst and a burst cannon (or something else that puts out tons of hits) for all of your XV8 remeber keep them cheap and expendable, if you didn't want them to die you should have made them XV25s. What type of drones are you taking? and why are you taking drones? (unless they are marker drones) I suggest that you drop the two rail rifles from the path finders, give them a Shas'ui with additional markerlight and think hard about getting another squad of them. Reason: in case you hadn't noticed cover is everywhere in 5th edition, markerlights can be used to negate cover so new strategy: take guardsmen out of cover, hit them with anything and they can't roll for cover saves so they die.

My only critisisms are the 3 XV8s which I think could be made 6 XV25s, unless you are making them fusion/flamer or something else that XV25 can't carry, and the lack of pathfinders/markerlights. Remember that without cover guard are as good as dead.

when you next battle with them (IG) please take notes and post a detailed battle report (with a link to it from this thread) as theTau have not yet gathered much expirence or intellegence with battling the new and improved Imperial Guardsmen. Since Tau are the main opponent of the Imperial Guard we need to know what they have and how to stop them
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Old 13 May 2009, 18:19   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tactics against Imperial Guard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis
u know what i did i once i sneaked in a farsight and made the ig player concentrate fire on my hammer head s who are in cover, i sneaked in on farsight up to to them and since all assault on tanks counts as rear armor i d6+d6+5str on him and killed a entire tank squadron.

by the way i would appreciate if anyone would email me to tell me if they can deep strike fasight?
Yes, Commander Farsight can deep strike, since he has an XV-8 Crisis Suit with a Jetpack.

Please, we try to maintain certain standards of English here. Try using capital letters where appropriate. Your post was difficult to read the way you posted it.
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Old 13 May 2009, 19:16   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tactics against Imperial Guard?

You're basic infantry are GREAT against the Imperial Guard's infantry; they have better weapons (wound on +2, deny armor saves) and better armor. The Hammerheads are phenomenal with their sub munitions and I also would pander it. Last, what I call the "Triple Salute" (three broadsides, A.S.S. and 2 Shield drones [under a team leader]) are likely to take out or damage a tank a turn (my usual odds with the Imperium. Its worth the nearly 300 points if you can keep them from biting the dust. Although some deep striking Twin-linked Fusion Blaster armed and Targeting Array equiped Crisis Suit team can really surprise a unwary Tank or even two. And you'll likely make up your points (and might get a second shot out if your shield drones survive the return fire) on one tank! I've pulled this off once, and I was quite satisfied with the results, and the resultant look on his face.
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Old 14 May 2009, 01:39   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tactics against Imperial Guard?

I can't see how Tau can beat guards without going mech. Gotta get your fire warriors protected enough to get into rapid fire range, they you just chew through their ranks! Having multiple small kroot assault squad also helps!
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Old 14 May 2009, 03:21   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tactics against Imperial Guard?

If your enemy is superior in firepower, deny a target. Force him to get close enough for a chase. When his primary guard is distracted negate his support, one his support is negated, destroyed the rest.
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