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best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs
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Old 12 May 2009, 02:48   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs

I know this is a long post so thanks for anyone who reads it thank you!

I play against a mixture of tau Tyranids and space marines all of which suffer the wrath of three mighty rail heads in my possession.

However against the marines the rail guns are either too slow killings with solid shot and too weak killing with the sub munition (to reliably kill enough marines.) So what would be another good option? I'm considering a mass of TL plasma rifle wielding crisis suits since AP 2 will reduce them to their invulnerable and the TL almost ensures they hit. A TA will also get the suits hits on 3+ which if you have two chances at 3+ you really should hit. So if I take hypothetically 9 suits (3x3) I would get up to 18 rapid fire shots if I maneuver cunningly or deep strike opportunistically.

Does this sound like a viable stratagem for killing marines and other rugged infantry or would you have other suggestions?

a quick reference my army is.
3 FW squads

2 shas'el

3 hammerheads (rail)

2 piranha (fusion)

pathfinders and a devilfish

2 kroot squads of 10

some stealth suits.

just for ideas on what i have available thanks to anyone with a cunning idea!
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Old 12 May 2009, 03:13   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs

Fire Warriors are good for killing marines. The problem is that they dont hit very reliably. Support them with marker lights and you'll be hitting on 2's and wounding on 3's pretty reliably. That will make them take a LOT of 3+ armor saves. That can put down marines pretty well. Also, the hammerhead blast template will hurt a lot of marines because it wounds them on 2's. Crisis suit plasma will also do the trick if you can support them with markerlights. Use the marker lights to get rid of their cover and then wound. You'll be wounding on 2's with no save. That will hurt them very well. The problem is that you cant lay down a HUGE volume of fire with the plasma rifles but if you support them properly or are lucky enough to catch them in the open then plasma will lay them low with relative ease, especially if you twinlink your plasma. With anything else the trick is just volume of fire. If you make the marines test their armor save enough then you'll be able to put them down pretty reliably. My suggestion would be to drop the kroot and pick up some more pathfinders. That will help you hurt marines.
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Old 12 May 2009, 08:09   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs

Something else you might consider is turning one of your Rail-head's into an Ion-Head. You have plenty of anti-tank in your force, so the loss of one Rail-head isn't detrimental. Factor in the rate of fire, all-round useful str/ap and range of the ion cannon, it is equally valuable to a Rail-head, but for a different use. It reliably wounds marines on a 2 and negates their save. It's great for taking out light vehicles, assisting front line troops, and, if equipped w/ the SMS, can strike @ targets out of LoS. You're on the right track w/ the TL plasma on the XV8's and TA's can really turn them into prime Termie hunters.

Other than that, focus your fire. This rings true for all armies, but is really the backbone of the Tau army. We function @ our best when all our squads work in concert w/ one another - we cannot take on opponents piecemeal. Like Jedibean said, when you start making them take massive amounts of saves, the probability of the dice coming up 1 or 2 dramaticaly goes up.

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Old 12 May 2009, 15:26   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs

Depends on the battlefield too.

Everyone here is give you good advice, I shall se if I can add some more in.

In CoD, I love hitting them with weapons like flamers, CIB, MP, and AFP.

In a tournament setting I agree that an Ionhead really racks up the kill count, and is useful against other opponents as well.

My sneaky favorite in any situation is using Kroot and Kroot Hounds. Nothing like charging into combat and throwing 60 dice at them, half of those at I5, when they are not expecting it from a Tau army.

If you can tailor your army, go for an Aurora and some Helio, Burningeyes, or Fireknives.

When all of that fails I use volume of firepower. My Railguns take out Commanders, the submunitions take out tactical squads, and massed pulse fire for everything else.

Also if you take large quantities of XV-8s, then the Firestorm configuration will do OK also. The only downside of the Firestorm is that you need to be able to play for the long term game, as they have a good chance to do nothing against MEQs, along with a chance to do quite well. The Firestorm is my favorite suit for most tournaments, as if you face a horde army they truly rock.
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Old 12 May 2009, 17:41   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337green1
Also if you take large quantities of XV-8s, then the Firestorm configuration will do OK also. The only downside of the Firestorm is that you need to be able to play for the long term game, as they have a good chance to do nothing against MEQs, along with a chance to do quite well.
Hah, yeah...in a recent team game, when my ally was playing Tau for a change, he took all his four suits in Firestorm config, reasoning that their volume of fire will overwhelm Marines. He even upgraded his Monats to team leaders so he could buy them TA. Well, to put it short, after truly crappy dice day, I think his suits killed like 3 Marines all in all. :P
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Old 12 May 2009, 18:10   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs

My main anti-MEQ guns are:

Broadsides - they smoke marines! I run 9 of them and they can smoke most of a marine squad without bliinking.

Hammerhead with Ion cannon - usually good to kill a couple at least.

Fireknive crisis - those plasma melt marines like it aint no thang. Especially in rapid fire. And those missiles don't hurt the cause.

Kroot hounds - a squad of kroot with 12 hounds will rip a tactical squad to shreads with no problem.



Hammerheads blast is bad at killing marines. You need to cover 6 of them to get 1 kill mathematically. And Fire Warriors are good for 1.11 marine kills a turn for a full squad. I wouldn't rely on them either.
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Old 12 May 2009, 18:34   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs

If it's marine equivalents you are going after, it's all about negating the 3+ save. Pathfinder rail rifles can be useful here, although with their long range the target will likely be able to claim a cover save from some sort of junk in the way. The ionhead is one of the best choices, and it's maneuverable enough to get a clean shot most of the time. You can also use the skyray, which particularly shines against marine bikers (Instant Death). It's helpful to have a pathfinder squad to give you enough markerlights to launch a strong opening salvo at a high priority target like a command or devastator squad. Oh, and I second the kroot hound suggestion. A full squad of kroot and hounds on the charge will throw 36 dice before the space marines act and another 60 after! Space marines may not know fear, but they will know defeat.

For terminators the best choice, albeit a rather risky one, is a deep-striking Helios squad (plasma rifle and fusion blaster). I like to use the HQ's for this so all the suits can have both targeting arrays and multi-trackers. Within rapid-fire range, a squad with a TA and one markerlight hit will unload 9 shots that hit on 2, wound on 2, and bypass the armor save. That should kill 4 terminators even with their invulnerable save. Another option is broadsides, particularly the plasma rifle / multi-tracker version. At close range it's similar nastiness to the Helios squad, although you're not likely to have that option unless your opponent underestimates your firepower and tries to close with them.

If it's the terminator variant with the 3+ invulnerable save, then I would just hit them with massed fire. In my opinion there's not much point in trying to bypass a 2+ so they can have a 3+, so hit them with rapid-fire pulse rifles, burst cannons, smart missiles, and maybe missile pods if they don't have something else to shoot at.
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Old 12 May 2009, 19:54   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backfire
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337green1
Also if you take large quantities of XV-8s, then the Firestorm configuration will do OK also. The only downside of the Firestorm is that you need to be able to play for the long term game, as they have a good chance to do nothing against MEQs, along with a chance to do quite well.
Hah, yeah...in a recent team game, when my ally was playing Tau for a change, he took all his four suits in Firestorm config, reasoning that their volume of fire will overwhelm Marines. He even upgraded his Monats to team leaders so he could buy them TA. Well, to put it short, after truly crappy dice day, I think his suits killed like 3 Marines all in all. :P
Yeah, but over time they come out better (especially with cover saves). It is just tough when the dice are against you.

So there you have it, the same ideas coming from almost everyone who post here:
1) Take some XV-8s and get in close with Plasma Rifles and Fusion Blasters.
2) Use your heavy hitters like Seeker Missiles, Ioncannon, and Railguns.
3) Get in CC with Kroot and Hounds.
4) Throw mass Pulse fire at them.

Oh and if your canny enough there are Vespid.

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Old 12 May 2009, 21:57   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs

Twinlinked flamers are also good at killing anything lesser than terminators or monstrous creatures! When you can burn a 10 men squad of marines 3 times with re-roll to wound! They ain't gonna stick around for long!
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Old 13 May 2009, 00:26   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: best way to kill medium infantry? MeQs

So, in short, the best ways to deal with any target is a question of quality vs quantity. It would be nice to have a Rng: Unlimited, Str: 10, AP: 1, Assault 20, Melta, Lance, Twin-Linked, weapon but not very balanced.

Quality is getting the hit (high BS), the wound (high STR), and denying the save (low AP, deny cover, etc). Usually this is balanced by low rate of fire.

Quantity is simply hitting them a lot, and letting random chance provide the hits, wounds, and missed saves.

You have to use what you have properly.
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