Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Pulse Rifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?
Closed Thread
Old 08 Jun 2005, 15:00   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canada,ON
Posts: 156
Send a message via AIM to Dralok Send a message via MSN to Dralok
Default Pulse Rifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?

* *(I searched pulse rifles vs. pulse carbines in the search and it didnt bring up anything, so if this topic has already been discussed please supply me a link and ill delete this post, otherwise...)

* *Why take a pulse carbine in a Fire warrior squad of Fire warriors instead of a pulse rifle? what strategy would you be using with them if they do take pulse carbines? aren't most armies incredibly resistent to pinning? and would it even be worth it to take carbines in a fire warrior squad in a mech tau army?
__________________
CAUTION! his army contains psychotic tau, and soon to be chaos marines, who tend to do more damage to themselves than they do to the enemy. This warning has been brought to you by the letter "3".

Shas'la-"Sir are you sure we shouldn't be running away from the Blood thirster?"
Shas'ui-"Of course not, dont you have complete faith in our ethreals? for the greater good... CHARGE!"

Dralok is offline  
Old 08 Jun 2005, 17:20   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: A small condom off the coast of your pants
Posts: 231
Send a message via AIM to Vega62a
Default Re: Pulse Riifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralok
* *(I searched pulse rifles vs. pulse carbines in the search and it didnt bring up anything, so if this topic has already been discussed please supply me a link and ill delete this post, otherwise...)

* *Why take a pulse carbine in a Fire warrior squad of Fire warriors instead of a pulse rifle? what strategy would you be using with them if they do take pulse carbines? aren't most armies incredibly resistent to pinning? and would it even be worth it to take carbines in a fire warrior squad in a mech tau army?
The biggest mistake a person can make is assuming that becasue armies are resistant to pinning that you can't pin them. Even high leadership values can fail a roll, and whiel you shouldn't stake the game on it, it can make a vast difference.

So firstly, there's just the chance. Yesterday, I was playing a match against Dark Eldar (again. My only opponent right now.) One of his bigger Warrior squads was trying to charge into combat with my poor Tau, and because I had a carbine or five, I was able to pin the squad and settle down for a turn to wipe them out. Even Space Marine squads fail rolls sometimes, albeit not often. Guardsmen fail them enough.

Second, I was moving that entire time, but because I had the carbines, I was able to continue shooting while I did so. Carbines are great for Tau you're sending into hostile territory, especially against some units that might assault you, so that if you need to, you can book it backwards and still snap off shots at a reasonable distance. Once they close within rapid fire distance, you're probably screwed.

Third, Mech Tau armies should consider it seriously. If you FoF two FW squads right in the middle of enemy territory, you're gonna be glad you brought along seven or eight carbines when you leap out and start blasting on the same turn. It's great for jumping out of a Devilfish and damaging enemy resistance nearby, and MAYBE forcing them down for a turn so you can center your guns. That's the biggest thing, is that carbines can fire 18" on the turn that they disembark (so long as the vehicle hasn't moved that turn, which is something you should be doing anyway). It's actually not as good for ground-pounder FW squads, as it takes them so long to move into range that the 18" just ain't enough.

So yeah. Carbines have their value. Don't underestimate them.
__________________
'Till the window burns...
Vega62a is offline  
Old 09 Jun 2005, 13:50   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canada,ON
Posts: 156
Send a message via AIM to Dralok Send a message via MSN to Dralok
Default Re: Pulse Rifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?

Quote:
That's the biggest thing, is that carbines can fire 18" on the turn that they disembark (so long as the vehicle hasn't moved that turn, which is something you should be doing anyway)
what do you mean so long as it hasn't moved? your telling me the devilfish can't move, drop fire warriors and have the fire warriors shoot their rapid fire or pulse carbines? ???
__________________
CAUTION! his army contains psychotic tau, and soon to be chaos marines, who tend to do more damage to themselves than they do to the enemy. This warning has been brought to you by the letter "3".

Shas'la-"Sir are you sure we shouldn't be running away from the Blood thirster?"
Shas'ui-"Of course not, dont you have complete faith in our ethreals? for the greater good... CHARGE!"

Dralok is offline  
Old 09 Jun 2005, 14:51   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Woodside CA
Posts: 791
Send a message via AIM to Tau Commander Send a message via MSN to Tau Commander
Default Re: Pulse Rifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?

carbine's are assault weapons, they can be fired on the move
__________________

want a sig or avatar like mine? http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=29403.0 request there and i'll do w/e you want
i used to be Tau_va back in the day o_0
Tau Commander is offline  
Old 09 Jun 2005, 19:42   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago, IL, US of A
Posts: 339
Send a message via AIM to Warning Label
Default Re: Pulse Rifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tau_va
carbine's are assault weapons, they can be fired on the move
thats where their real value is. i never wanto be in 12 inches of an enemy with FW and not beable to move back and shoot. It makes for a good rabbit...... with really big fangs *CHOMP!!!!*
__________________
"Why eat sour cream when you can... BLOW IT UP!!!!!!!!"
-A dude named henry
Warning Label is offline  
Old 09 Jun 2005, 20:15   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
The Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,208
Default Re: Pulse Rifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?

You could also use the pin effect to add another LD test to a squad. Consider this: a devilfish tank shocks a squad (thats one LD test), its weapons fire onto the squad (2 drones add the potential of a pin test), then a FW/PF squad jumps out and shoots up the squad, hopefully its enough for a 25% casualty LD check, and another pin test. Between 3-4 LD checks you should be well off against armies with weak LD.
__________________
The Orange is offline  
Old 09 Jun 2005, 21:34   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canada,ON
Posts: 156
Send a message via AIM to Dralok Send a message via MSN to Dralok
Default Re: Pulse Rifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?

if 1 squad takes 25% losses and takes a wound from a pulse carbine and pulse rifle fire from 1 of my squads, do they have to take a pinning and a leadership test? or just the 1 leadership test and if they fail they are pinned.
__________________
CAUTION! his army contains psychotic tau, and soon to be chaos marines, who tend to do more damage to themselves than they do to the enemy. This warning has been brought to you by the letter "3".

Shas'la-"Sir are you sure we shouldn't be running away from the Blood thirster?"
Shas'ui-"Of course not, dont you have complete faith in our ethreals? for the greater good... CHARGE!"

Dralok is offline  
Old 09 Jun 2005, 21:39   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,260
Default Re: Pulse Riifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega62a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralok
(I searched pulse rifles vs. pulse carbines in the search and it didnt bring up anything, so if this topic has already been discussed please supply me a link and ill delete this post, otherwise...)

Why take a pulse carbine in a Fire warrior squad of Fire warriors instead of a pulse rifle? what strategy would you be using with them if they do take pulse carbines? aren't most armies incredibly resistent to pinning? and would it even be worth it to take carbines in a fire warrior squad in a mech tau army?
The biggest mistake a person can make is assuming that becasue armies are resistant to pinning that you can't pin them. Even high leadership values can fail a roll, and whiel you shouldn't stake the game on it, it can make a vast difference.
The biggest mistake someone can make is to assume they can pull off miracles. Without getting into the statistics of shooting 4-6 pulse carbines from fire warriors into marines, hitting with some, wounding with some, and then having them fail a save? It's not going to happen, and when it does - it's probably going to come at a very inopportune time.

Quote:
So firstly, there's just the chance. Yesterday, I was playing a match against Dark Eldar (again. My only opponent right now.) One of his bigger Warrior squads was trying to charge into combat with my poor Tau, and because I had a carbine or five, I was able to pin the squad and settle down for a turn to wipe them out. Even Space Marine squads fail rolls sometimes, albeit not often. Guardsmen fail them enough.
Of course there is always a chance, but that's not the point. Is the chance worth it in a squad that does not want to be moving, and if they are moving - it's to close the gap for rapid fire range? I don't think the small chance to pin a unit - especially marines - is ever worth giving up pulse rifles on the fire warriors. You have pathfinders and gundrones who can do that better.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Edwin
Also note I have 6 lord level HQ's leading 10 scouts.
Join the arena, and succumb to the eternal lust!
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=9054.0
ShadowDeth is offline  
Old 09 Jun 2005, 22:13   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alachua, Florida
Posts: 8,647
Send a message via MSN to MalVeauX
Default Re: Pulse Rifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?

Dralok:

Actually it has been discussed quite a bit on whether or not to take Carbines in Fire Warrior squads, Mech and not alike. Here's a few snipets:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=4830.0
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=6069.0
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=335.0
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=4516.0
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=3146.0

[hr]

Now personally, A full team of Carbines is not a good idea in my opinion, as we can only mass up to 8 total carbines in the squad (6 on the fire warriors and 2 more from some drones). If we wanted as many carbines as possible, we could get 10 of them from a pathfinder team with drones. However, I think it's wise to consider carbines.

The thing is, a lot of people are very anti-carbine because of 4th edition rules and rapid fire. The truth is, most people who don't play Tau love the pulse carbine and eye ball it and wish they had it instead of their bolter or other base weapon. Quite simply, the pulse carbine is amazing considering it's a base weapon that you don't pay for. Now really, you don't need it, but it's quite a utility weapon. I see nothing wrong with taking 2 pulse carbines myself in a squad because it gives you a relatively decent chance to try and pin a squad down. Now many may say, "It doesn't kill marines! I can't pin half of the armies out there!" Well, that may be true in some respects, but that doesn't mean everyone should just throw their pulse carbines away. They can be useful against many other armies and we all play different opponents. So I say it's a good way to keep your options open.

Now here's another way to view it (what I suggest sometimes):

12 x Fire Warriors - They could have 6 carbines, or up to 8, but why? We cannot transport with those drones attached due to squad size, and we may want to model all of our pulse rifles instead. So... look towards the drones to do the work. After all, gundrones actually are more accurate than fire warriors with their carbines!

So you could consider a 10 x Fire Warrior squad with 2 Gun Drones perhaps that is transportable and allows you a few carbine shots to test out for yourself without hurting majorities or anything. So it's a reasonable and perfectly good way to give it a try, without modeling carbines on your Fire Warriors. Then if you like it and you want more, you could model them. Otherwise, you may find that 2 is all you need to "try" each turn as having 6 may only produce the same results for you: a single pinning test.

So - Unless you're playing a true fearless army (read: grey knights are true fearless; marked cult chaos is true fearless) then why not give them a try! Even if you're playing a mech style of play, a few gundrones could be worked in there for a chance to pop off a pining test onto someone.

Cheers!
__________________
[table][tr][td][/td][td][table][tr][td] [/td][td]Apocalypse is the only way to forty-kay.[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]
MalVeauX is offline  
Old 09 Jun 2005, 22:21   #10 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 18,087
Default Re: Pulse Rifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralok
* if 1 squad takes 25% losses and takes a wound from a pulse carbine and pulse rifle fire from 1 of my squads, do they have to take a pinning and a leadership test? or just the 1 leadership test and if they fail they are pinned.
They way I understand it, after a unit with carbines has fired and caused casualties, the enemy mustimmediately take a pinning test. At the end of your shooting phase, you check to see if you have reduced any units by 25%. Those units then take leadership tests. If any of those units are currently pinned by your earlier carbine fire, they do not have to see if they fall back. Pinning overrides the 25%. It is possible that some of the units that passed their pinning test may fail their 25% test, at which point they flee as normal.

If, by some chance, you pin a unit that is already falling back, the unit stops falling back and is pinned instead. They may not regroup, however, and will start running again as soon as the pinning wears off.

So, to clarify for your example, the enemy unit first takes a pinning test. If they fail, they are pinned. If they pass, they then must take a normal leadership test. If they pass, they are uneffected. If they fail, they fall back as per the normal rules.

Hope that helps!
khanaris is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The fire warrior- Pulse rifle or Pulse carbine? (With Dfish) scar face Tau 17 17 Aug 2008 07:47
Fire warriors, pulse carbines or rifles? Shaso Vectul Tau 23 04 Jun 2008 22:15
Mixing up Pulse Rifles and Pulse Carbines ShasO KVor Tau 17 23 May 2007 19:12
Pulse Carbines or Pulse Rifles? Commander Variss Tau 43 11 Jun 2006 18:09
pulse rifles or pulse carbines? Jan Tau 16 12 Feb 2005 02:58