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commander with drones question
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Old 27 Apr 2009, 18:40   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default commander with drones question

Recently I have begun playing several small games to get a feel for the Tau, and how they stack up against other forces. Because the games are so small I often take only a Shas'el commander with no bodyguard, only a couple of drones to back him up. Do these count as additional members of a unit? For example, if the commander and his drones are shot at, and the drones both die, is he forced to take a leadership check for losing 25% of the unit? If this is the case, and he fails, does this mean he may not attempt to rally without benefit of a bonding knife?
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Old 27 Apr 2009, 19:01   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: commander with drones question

It says in the codex that they do count for working out 25% casualties.
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Old 27 Apr 2009, 19:05   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: commander with drones question

Quote:
Do these count as additional members of a unit? For example, if the commander and his drones are shot at, and the drones both die, is he forced to take a leadership check for losing 25% of the unit?
Yes. I was flipping through my bro's Tau codex just this morning and read up on the drones out of curiosity, so this is fresh on my mind. They count as a unit so any of those kinds of numbers (morale tests for 25% losses, rallying only if over 50%, etc.) apply. However, they are a unique case in that they can join units as if they were a single IC, so consider them a hybrid ruleset.

You can read about this in detail in the Drone entry in your codex, in the Armoury.

Quote:
If this is the case, and he fails, does this mean he may not attempt to rally without benefit of a bonding knife?
Yes, this would be the case. But it is unlikely to be a problem.

You can rally only when above half strength. But I believe that strength isn't actual model count, but wound count. As such, a commander and 2 drones is a five wound unit, and can rally as long as there 3 wounds left - ergo, the commander. Or, a wounded commander and a single drone. Etc., and so on.

If both drones die, then the commander reverts to normal IC rules, rather than the hybrid rules that he inherits when using drones. Since this is the case, the commander would still be at above 50% strength if he was wounded once and both his drones were dead. He may be at 2 wounds out of an original 5, but since both drones have been removed he is now a normal IC, and, as such, is considered as at '2 out of original 3' wounds, and still above 50%.

I'm flipping through my pocket rulebook as I type and I can't find anything more specific than that. I thought that morale in regards to ICs would be more thoroughly covered as I feel I have read what I am sharing now, but I don't see anything about it. I maybe be wrong and in due for some correction. :-\

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Old 27 Apr 2009, 20:20   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: commander with drones question

Thanks for the replies, I must have missed that when reading the drone entry. I will try to find clarification on the models/wounds limit for testing morale.
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Old 27 Apr 2009, 20:44   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: commander with drones question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droids_Rule
Yes, this would be the case. But it is unlikely to be a problem.

You can rally only when above half strength. But I believe that strength isn't actual model count, but wound count. As such, a commander and 2 drones is a five wound unit, and can rally as long as there 3 wounds left - ergo, the commander. Or, a wounded commander and a single drone. Etc., and so on.

If both drones die, then the commander reverts to normal IC rules, rather than the hybrid rules that he inherits when using drones. Since this is the case, the commander would still be at above 50% strength if he was wounded once and both his drones were dead. He may be at 2 wounds out of an original 5, but since both drones have been removed he is now a normal IC, and, as such, is considered as at '2 out of original 3' wounds, and still above 50%.

I'm flipping through my pocket rulebook as I type and I can't find anything more specific than that. I thought that morale in regards to ICs would be more thoroughly covered as I feel I have read what I am sharing now, but I don't see anything about it. I maybe be wrong and in due for some correction. :-\
I think you understand the rules wrong.

The Drones count as regular unit members for casualty purposes. The unit of our Commander, unless bodyguards are taken, has 1-3 models. A Commander plus 0-2 Drones. If you have a Commander and 2 Drones and both Drones are lost, the unit is below 50% strength and needs to have a Bonding Knife to rally. I believe the Commander has an IC status even with his Drones, so he does not "revert back to the IC status" when he loses them.

Using your logic, a unit of 3 regular XV-8 Crisis Suits (2 Wounds each, different equipment setup) with one Drone, losing the Drone and suffering a single Wound per Suit, could never rally without a Bonding Knife, since they would have lost 4 out of 7 Wounds and thus be below 50% strength.

Or a unit of 10 such models (2 Wounds each, different equipment setup), for instance Ork Nobz, suffering 11 Wounds and therefore losing a single model, would be unable to rally...

I do not think this is how it works.
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Old 27 Apr 2009, 21:14   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: commander with drones question

There's no mention of the drones affecting the below 50% for regrouping. It only explicitly mentions the 25% morale check and the 50% strength for victory points purposes.
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Old 27 Apr 2009, 21:32   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: commander with drones question

You're right, it is weird.

The 'strength' concept isn't really elaborated upon at all in the 5th ed rulebook, and this situation doesn't come up often with my armies. The 50% wounds thing is wrong, then, sorry.

I'm still curious as to the IC part, though. Would a Battlesuit Commander with Drones not have a similar situation as a Broodlord with Genestealers, or any other character with a unit? Ergo, when his unit dies, he becomes a seperate unit for all purposes, and would not be considered under strength.

This leads me to a new question, would a solo hero - just ignoring the retinue/command squad situation for simplicity - ever be under strength? In the VERY few situations where my commanders have run (Tyranids and Inquisitors are kind of hard to scare away :P), I've played it as 'unit strength' equates to his wounds, so that a 3-wound hero with 2 gone couldn't regroup, as it just seemed plausible. Naturally, this seems like it could be expanded to troops. ???
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Old 27 Apr 2009, 21:57   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: commander with drones question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unholy Harbinger
It says in the codex that they do count for working out 25% casualties.
I believe this has to do with 4th edition rules and determining if a unit can claim an objective.

An HQ crisis suit with drones is a unit and when his drones are destroyed he reverts back to a standard independent character. So he does not take a leadership test when he looses his drones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droids_Rule
This leads me to a new question, would a solo hero - just ignoring the retinue/command squad situation for simplicity - ever be under strength? In the VERY few situations where my commanders have run (Tyranids and Inquisitors are kind of hard to scare away :P), I've played it as 'unit strength' equates to his wounds, so that a 3-wound hero with 2 gone couldn't regroup, as it just seemed plausible. Naturally, this seems like it could be expanded to troops. ???
What determines if a unit is under strength is how many models are left and not wounds.
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 06:00   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: commander with drones question

Quote:
Originally Posted by NytBlade
What determines if a unit is under strength is how many models are left and not wounds.
This way if one drone died 2 thirds of the unit is left. If both died 100% is left according to fluff (you can't really stab a drone with a bonding knife as you have to do in the ritual and still have it functioning...)

EDIT: Spelling and Grammer
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