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Vectored thrusters on suits
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 10:41   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Vectored thrusters on suits

In CC the crisis suit's strength is the only thing going for him. If you survive H2H youre likely never to win it. Short range weapons like flamers and fusion guns are great, but often if not always their use gets you into melee shortly after.

Why the hell doesnt the codex allow you to take vector thrusters for anything other then a character Monat? Id like to make (and convert) a unit with this battlesuit option for the amazing HIT AND RUN ability. But I cant take it on anyone other then a stand alone who will lose the ability if he joins a unit. And since the monat with thrusters cant even take drones, he will likely be picked off in short order by ranged attacks.

Is there any way to use this upgrade effectivly on a monat, or does anyone have tales of using it in a game?
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 14:50   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Vectored thrusters on suits

I've been running a campaign with my friend for a few weeks now just for fun. We give outveterancy special rules after each match and I happened to get counter-attack and hit and run for farsight and his retinue.

It's insanely unfair >. First off, suits do okay in cc with a few of his units but the best way to ensure victory is to take sheild drones. They get early hits and soak power weapons. I've killed vulcan with a shield drone!

Giving hit and run to more than one suit officially would be tons of fun. I think it would be balanced as it costs a ton - maybe make the wargear one time use per game for each unit with the upgrade? Just enough to save you once.
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 14:55   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Vectored thrusters on suits

flukes like killing Vulcan with a drone is hardly something you can rely on. I think the current costs and rules are fine, considdering theres no melee weapons that could make the unit more discusting then it is. The hit and run is to get you out of H2H, because you dont want to be there. But a single suit without drones may never live to make the escape roll.
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 15:00   #4 (permalink)
Xar
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Default Re: Vectored thrusters on suits

Speaking of hit&run, what is an "initiative test"? We're assuming it's d6 + I, but who wins a tie? Does it matter who won the melee, or is the unit running "the aggressor" and wins the tie?
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 15:29   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Vectored thrusters on suits

you roll a d6 and the result has to be lower then your stat
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 16:02   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Vectored thrusters on suits

I wrote up a special character for fun that used the VRT with two, not twin-linked flamers. He is a special character so I figured I would make him, well special. Anyway it kinda works, but like it has been pointed out, the chance of actually geting the chance to use it is low. You could make a super unit monat with CIB, AFP, VRT, Iridium Armor, Stimulant Injector and HW-multitracker, but it would be a giant point-sink and an even bigger gamble to use. Maybe I will try this build and see how it does since I have an odd number of XV8's.

EDIT: the suggested build comes to 115 points for a single Elite model with 5 shots and one large blast at short range, along with feels no pain, hit and run and a 2+ armor save.
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 16:16   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Vectored thrusters on suits

I'm not suggesting that you can rely on drones - just sharing an anecdote.

The point of my suggestion is that if you had suits equiped with short range weaponry and find yourself in combat you might have an escape option once per game. If nothing else I'll try it as a house rule in the future. Personally I think it would fit well in fifth edition if cc proves to be harder to avoid with jsj.
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 18:09   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Vectored thrusters on suits

Frankly I think that any unit with the Jetpack special rule should automatically get hit and run. Considering that they nerfed it so that it's an opposed initiative check now and the Tau already have VERY low initiative I dont see this as being particularly unbalanced.
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 18:14   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Vectored thrusters on suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col.Angus
Why the hell doesnt the codex allow you to take vector thrusters for anything other then a character Monat? Id like to make (and convert) a unit with this battlesuit option for the amazing HIT AND RUN ability. But I cant take it on anyone other then a stand alone who will lose the ability if he joins a unit. And since the monat with thrusters cant even take drones, he will likely be picked off in short order by ranged attacks.

Is there any way to use this upgrade effectivly on a monat, or does anyone have tales of using it in a game?
In 4th edition there used to be quite an effective Commander build - The O'Ninja - or Ninja'O (nothing to do with Ninja Tau).

Basically he was a 'O with - Shield Generator, Stimulant Injectors and Vectored Retro Thrusters (Plus a Weapon like the CIB).

He was very hard to kill/wound and the general use for him was tieing up enemy units/Mc's/IC's in CC - then skipping out after CC in your enemys turn to allow the rest of your Army (and himself) to fire before charging back in and tieing up the unit again so they could not do anything in their turn.

A sort of JSJ Hit and run counter assualt unit - and he could be very useful for maintaining fire and stopping enemies reaching your lines.

5th edition has changed him though, the changes to the Hit and run rules dont help his cause and the Comabt Resolution Rules really ruin his day. In 4th with a Leadership of 10 he would very rarely run from combat (even if down to his last wound) but in 5th if he takes a couple of Wounds you are down to LD8....and running away becomes quite possible.

I used to use them all the time in 4th, not so much now in 5th
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 18:55   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Vectored thrusters on suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFishing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Col.Angus
Why the hell doesnt the codex allow you to take vector thrusters for anything other then a character Monat? Id like to make (and convert) a unit with this battlesuit option for the amazing HIT AND RUN ability. But I cant take it on anyone other then a stand alone who will lose the ability if he joins a unit. And since the monat with thrusters cant even take drones, he will likely be picked off in short order by ranged attacks.

Is there any way to use this upgrade effectivly on a monat, or does anyone have tales of using it in a game?
In 4th edition there used to be quite an effective Commander build - The O'Ninja - or Ninja'O (nothing to do with Ninja Tau).

Basically he was a 'O with - Shield Generator, Stimulant Injectors and Vectored Retro Thrusters (Plus a Weapon like the CIB).

He was very hard to kill/wound and the general use for him was tieing up enemy units/Mc's/IC's in CC - then skipping out after CC in your enemys turn to allow the rest of your Army (and himself) to fire before charging back in and tieing up the unit again so they could not do anything in their turn.

A sort of JSJ Hit and run counter assualt unit - and he could be very useful for maintaining fire and stopping enemies reaching your lines.

5th edition has changed him though, the changes to the Hit and run rules dont help his cause and the Comabt Resolution Rules really ruin his day. In 4th with a Leadership of 10 he would very rarely run from combat (even if down to his last wound) but in 5th if he takes a couple of Wounds you are down to LD8....and running away becomes quite possible.

I used to use them all the time in 4th, not so much now in 5th
which is why I think it should be free for any jet pack unit.
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