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Tau and Templates
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 11:38   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Tau and Templates

Hi there. Very new to both 40k and Tau (never played with them), so bear with me if this is a trivial question. I looked around on this and other sites, but couldn't really find a thread where it was debated to extent, so I thought I might as well hear you guys out.

I think it's pretty obvious that there aren't that many template weapons in the Tau Codex. Is this a real problem, or can it easily be countered with other tactics? I just find it surprising that in such a shooty army, there isn't more template based weaponry. I get the fluff to why there isn't (and I love that part of the fluff) but when it comes to actual games is it a problem?

Sorry if the question is cluttered, but English is my second language hope you get the gist of it.
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 11:52   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau and Templates

We have a fair amount, hammerhead railguns and fusion cannons can put one out, flamers on suits, the airbursting frag launcher...ok it is quite small list really. Tau I think focus on more definate methods of kills, instead of carpet bombing an area we try to make the shots we take count, markerlights go a long way towards this by helping each shot we take count, there is nothing like having a plasma rifle hit on 2's and deny all cover to your opponent.

Which bit of fluff reasons why we don't get many templates? Can't say I've seen it, I just put two and two together (and for once might have gotten four as opposed to 22) that they prefer to make things count instead of pounding an area and hoping.
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 11:58   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau and Templates

Maybe I was a bit to quick when I said "the fluff" since I don't think it's actually stated anywhere that Tau dislike Template weapons, but what I meant was the feel the book gives you every opportunity the Codex has it uses to tell us that Tau weapons are precise, they have markerlight etc.

But my question wasn't really about the fluff part of Templates, but more whether or not it's a problem in games that you are somewhat limited in that area.
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 12:13   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau and Templates

Ah yeah, I know what you mean about the feel of it. I've not really had reason to be worried by our lack of template spam, and I'm going to quote myself here which always makes me feel like a tool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovash745
markerlights go a long way towards this by helping each shot we take count, there is nothing like having a plasma rifle hit on 2's and deny all cover to your opponent.
Markerlights are what make me not overly bothered by it, they're useful, and can bring other units into the killing range of what a template can do, do you know how many times I've wiped units off the table thanks to just two marker hits on them and following up with only 12 pulse shots? Well you won't really, cause you ain't met me before, but it's a lot. OK it goes down a bit if their Meq's or in cover. 4 marker hits is average from pathfinders, which put you at hitting on 2's and they get a measly save of 6+ in most cover. Or those 2 extra hits can be used to boost a second squad, 24 shots on 2's hurts, or 48 in rapid fire, that's accuracy that most people would weep over.

Think of Tau not as a sledgehammer pounding away, that's guard. But think of them as a scalpel, cutting out units with precision.
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 12:19   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau and Templates

I never realized how awesome the markerlight are, I mainly saw them as SMS propellants but I have now seen the error in my ways. The 48 rapid shots at 2+ sounds great - I guess a massive swarm of shots is kinda like a template Looking forward to my first proxy fight with Tau then
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 04:01   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tau and Templates

Fluff: Tau are about precise strikes and low collateral damage attacks. This results in them not using mass devistation weapons (i.e. blast weapons) and the few they do have use sophisticated technology to insure they hit their targets. (with the new scatter rules in 5th ed. this fluff makes less sense but back in 4th it worked)

fusion cannons: Are not in the core codex, but in IA3. IA3 is an expensive forgeworld book that is 1.5 or 2 editions old, depending on your point of view, and while a great source of fluff, is outdated IMO on a mechanics level. Also, you don't get a fusion cannon with the sprues in the normal GW hammerhead or skyray platic kits. Finnally if you were to have one you need your opponents permission to use it. (Please when taking stuff from the IA3 simply cite it or mention that it is not in the core codex!)

Lack of Template weapons: Yes this can be a small problem, but the submunition option for the hammerhead railgun makes up for this with its really, really, long range and strong hit. Also the Airbursting Fragmentation Grenade Launcher is an awsome blast weapon and in the new rules causes pinning. Flamers while usefull are a tatic reliant weapon and depend on you personal preferance and play-style to determine how usefull they are to you. I have never used the IA3 fusion cannon so I have no opinion on it currently and do not believe I will develop one any-time soon.

P.S. good post and a very good question to bring up. I haven't seen any threads on this broader subject pertaining to 5th edition yet.
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 09:56   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau and Templates

The fusion cannon is a twin linked multi-melta with a small blast, how can you not have an opinion on it? Ok sorry, it's not in the main tau book but in casual games who's going to turn round and say no? At my club we don't even bother asking permission, well we do if somebody wants to use a titan or something similar in a regular game but that's it.
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 18:57   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau and Templates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovash745
The fusion cannon is a twin linked multi-melta with a small blast, how can you not have an opinion on it? Ok sorry, it's not in the main tau book but in casual games who's going to turn round and say no? At my club we don't even bother asking permission, well we do if somebody wants to use a titan or something similar in a regular game but that's it.
I desperately hope the fusion cannon becomes a part of the codex in the 5th edition Tau codex. That would be amazing to me. Kiss your terminators, nob bikers, necron anything, goodbye!
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 20:04   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau and Templates

>!!!Pounce!!! >
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate13
fusion cannons: Are not in the core codex, but in IA3. IA3 is an expensive forgeworld book that is 1.5 or 2 editions old, depending on your point of view, and while a great source of fluff, is outdated IMO on a mechanics level. Also, you don't get a fusion cannon with the sprues in the normal GW hammerhead or skyray platic kits. Finnally if you were to have one you need your opponents permission to use it. (Please when taking stuff from the IA3 simply cite it or mention that it is not in the core codex!)
!!!AHHH!!! :
IA:3 is WAY BETTER than the Tau Codex!
Every Tau player should own it, and scrap buying a Tau Codex. In my view it is less than 1 edition old and entirely useful to 5th edition (if you read it and understand the copyright date) especially when facing the main race in the book, Imperial Guard.

True you have to buy separate conversion kits for the fusion cannons which is expensive, and yes you have to @%&*ing ask your opponent's permission (!#~| you Games workshop! I would buy tons of your cool Imperial Armour stuff if it weren't for this stupid @%&*ing 'rule&#39

They are very cool, and relatively useful units in combat, as Tau are based on speed and these make it worthwhile to have speedy units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate13
I haven't seen any threads on this broader subject pertaining to 5th edition yet.
I agree! A good question that deserves a greater expansion of knowledge.

In my humble opinion Tau only use their templates some of the time, for instance: when facing guard there are many men and strong armoured tanks so the railgun makes sense (read IA:3 to learn more) or when facing tyranid, again large squads and tough HQ units make it a good idea to take the railgun and flamers. In fact when facing a hoard army it is often a good idea to be able to take out large numbers in few shots, which is the template purpose. however, they are not always good, many (marine based) armies have troops that will survive the initial blast (are allowed armour saves) but will melt away if faced with other heavy weapons such as ion cannons, rail rifles, fusion blasters, fusion cannons, seeker missiles etc. hence why you have an option.
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Old 24 Apr 2009, 03:06   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau and Templates

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore
IA:3 is WAY BETTER than the Tau Codex!
Every Tau player should own it, and scrap buying a Tau Codex. In my view it is less than 1 edition old and entirely useful to 5th edition (if you read it and understand the copyright date) especially when facing the main race in the book, Imperial Guard.

True you have to buy separate conversion kits for the fusion cannons which is expensive, and yes you have to @%&*ing ask your opponent's permission (!#~| you Games workshop! I would buy tons of your cool Imperial Armour stuff if it weren't for this stupid @%&*ing 'rule&#39

They are very cool, and relatively useful units in combat, as Tau are based on speed and these make it worthwhile to have speedy units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate13
I haven't seen any threads on this broader subject pertaining to 5th edition yet.
I agree! A good question that deserves a greater expansion of knowledge.

In my humble opinion Tau only use their templates some of the time, for instance: when facing guard there are many men and strong armoured tanks so the railgun makes sense (read IA:3 to learn more) or when facing tyranid, again large squads and tough HQ units make it a good idea to take the railgun and flamers. In fact when facing a hoard army it is often a good idea to be able to take out large numbers in few shots, which is the template purpose. however, they are not always good, many (marine based) armies have troops that will survive the initial blast (are allowed armour saves) but will melt away if faced with other heavy weapons such as ion cannons, rail rifles, fusion blasters, fusion cannons, seeker missiles etc. hence why you have an option.
Only crap thing is the point cost for ion cannon on IA3, which is 30!!! And the Plasma cannon is abit weak, cause it's only a 2 shot plasma gun :-\. But otherwise I love 2 nu shas'el configs with the sms and built in marker light!

I think it's abit stink that IA3 can't be used without opponent agreement, especially since it's so expensive! I mean, I think for the story alone it's worth it, but still you know what Im sayin?
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