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piranhas are the worth it?
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 08:08   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default piranhas are the worth it?

a 'ranha with fusion blaster would make a rad tank killer. Dis pod on it and killing it outside its killing range would be ludicrous since it can move all out but it would be around 75 pts a pop for a fast fusion armed tank killer. is that wort hits cost since you could get almost two similarly armed suits for the same pts. or 7.5 fire warriors or almost a devil fish.

i play a mostly mechanized army so im looking at it from the mobile tank killer aspect. i cant really see the big whoop behind using it with a burst cannon, i suppose it could hold a solo infantry unit off an objective for a turn or so if its lucky.

(this has probably already been discussed but i didn't see it in the first few pages so maybe there will be new insight )
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 08:21   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: piranhas are the worth it?

A Piranha with a Fusion Blaster is a good and fast tank killer, especially when equipped with 2 Seeker Missiles, which can then be fired from the rear of the enemy armour, even after the Piranha moves Flat Out.

The community here tries to maintain certain standards. Please, try using proper grammar and Capitals where appropriate. Thank you.
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 08:55   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: piranhas are the worth it?

I mean if we are going to get nit picky all numbers under twelve should be spelled out and you should not have have capitalized "Capital" also you should not capitalize the names of the weapons as they are not proper nouns as there are many fusion blasters.

Its late I just worked a twelve hour shift that ended at midnight learning flight regulations if you would like proper grammar, that wont be a problem.

The army is at the moment fielding two hammer heads with four devilfish so I could get the seekers on those without the extra platforms. The cost seems a little steep though for the fusion blaster, however the speed is amazing. I do not think any other unit can close that quickly and effectively with a tank. The tank would be helpless to stop it, at those speeds.
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 09:02   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: piranhas are the worth it?

To use Seekers effectively you need to ensure that the number needed from the roll for penetration is as lowest as possible, preferably 2 to glance and 3 to penetrate. The best way to do so is to fire them from the rear arc of the enemy armour.

Piranhas are excellent in delivering those Seekers within one turn, using their Flat Out ability, which also grants them a nice 3+ Cover Save, enabling them to survive any retaliatory fire.
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 09:15   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: piranhas are the worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 15Whiskey
I mean if we are going to get nit picky all numbers under twelve should be spelled out and you should not have have capitalized "Capital" also you should not capitalize the names of the weapons as they are not proper nouns as there are many fusion blasters.
There's no need for that commentary. We all try, but mistakes are not avoidable. We're all human, after all (some more, others less, though ).
Quote:
Its late I just worked a twelve hour shift that ended at midnight learning flight regulations if you would like proper grammar, that wont be a problem.
Sorry to hear that, but since the reason for proper spelling and grammar is to make your posts easier to understand for the rest of us, that's not really an excuse.

Just a quick comment about our spelling rules: We do not demand perfect posts - that wouldn't be possible, anyway. We have members from nearly every age group and every continent, and a lot of people don't have English as their native language (like me). But we DO expect the posts to be legible, and not eye-bleedingly difficult to read. Generally, just a quick re-read before you hit the "Post"-button should be enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog
To use Seekers effectively you need to ensure that the number needed from the roll for penetration is as lowest as possible, preferably 2 to glance and 3 to penetrate. The best way to do so is to fire them from the rear arc of the enemy armour.

Piranhas are excellent in delivering those Seekers within one turn, using their Flat Out ability, which also grants them a nice 3+ Cover Save, enabling them to survive any retaliatory fire.
While I agree on the first part (Piranhas are just better Seeker platforms than other vehicles which most of the time face the front armor), I don't think Piranhas get a 3+ save for moving fast... I think it's still the regular "Skimmers moving fast" 4+ cover save. Only bikes get a 3+ cover save if I'm not mistaken.

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 10:22   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: piranhas are the worth it?

No your not mistaken, they do only get the 4+. Its why I would never bother with the disruption pods on my pirhanas. just move real fast and there you go, you get the save. Give it a few seekers each and use thm to blow the tanks. Which is why my pirhanas have been given the burst cannons. once those tanks are down due to seekers fusion blasters are overkill on infantry.

Going to be using my pirahnas on monday, burst cannons, 2 seekers and targeting array. 85pts of annoyance, just not sure how many to use 1, 2 or 3. Zip up one flank, then zip along behind the enemy army and let the pathfinders guide in some seekers into the tailpipes of battletanks...then fly about shooting at whatever. All jolly good fun.
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 14:55   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: piranhas are the worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovash745
No your not mistaken, they do only get the 4+. Its why I would never bother with the disruption pods on my pirhanas. just move real fast and there you go, you get the save. Give it a few seekers each and use thm to blow the tanks. Which is why my pirhanas have been given the burst cannons. once those tanks are down due to seekers fusion blasters are overkill on infantry.

Going to be using my pirahnas on monday, burst cannons, 2 seekers and targeting array. 85pts of annoyance, just not sure how many to use 1, 2 or 3. Zip up one flank, then zip along behind the enemy army and let the pathfinders guide in some seekers into the tailpipes of battletanks...then fly about shooting at whatever. All jolly good fun.
Don't underestimate the value of the disruption pod. For points it's totally worth it on ANY Tau vehicle. Especially so on the low armor valued piranha. The reason being that while you can move flat out to claim a cover save, you cant shoot after moving flat out. The extra 5 points to guarantee that you're going to get that cover save as long as your enemy stays out of 12" is a life saver in most cases.

And you hit the nail on the head when you referred to them as "85pts of annoyance." That's really exactly what they are at this point. They're no longer scoring as of 5th edition so you can use them to harass your opponent pretty much all over the board. Your opponent will have to waste fire taking them down, which is shooting that would be better spent taking down a scoring unit. The other alternative for your opponent is significantly less attractive, which is to ignore them. However, when their leman russ' or land raiders start exploding they may begin to regret that decision. They're also great in the end of game to be able to contest objectives. If you get the last turn being able to move flat out to contest an objective can win or lose a game for you. All of these are extremely annoying for your opponent.

As far as burst cannons vs. fusion blasters, I generally prefer fusion blasters. Considering the points cost of a unit of 3, which is how I run them if I take them, I really do want them going after high value targets like tanks and character hunting. On the other hand those burst cannons can level some serious fire power into something like a squad of eldar guardians or a mob of ork boyz. But usually if I'm looking to have burst cannons the best way to get them is to have stealth suits. On the subject of seeker missiles I only add the seeker missiles if I've got 60 points left to spare and cant figure out what to spend it on. This is usually rare because for 60 points you can usually get 2 more stealth suits or you can add 4 shield drones somewhere, or it's another minimum squad of fire warriors. So unless I'm playing a HUGE game I'll leave the seekers at home.

The tiny little Tau skimmer that could is oft over looked and admittedly a little overpriced (like so much on the Tau codex compared to the new 5th edition books) But they definitely fill a role in the Tau army that is unique and they can definitely be worth it when their fire power is applied properly. I hope this helps.
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 15:59   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: piranhas are the worth it?

Hmmm, yes, you are right, CmdrBonesaw, Piranhas only get a 4+ not a 3+ Cover Save. My mistake.

I do not own any Piranha yet, but when I decide to get some, I am certainly going to buy the Forge World variant, which, if I remember correctly, has AV 11 on the front and sides, plus more variety of weapons. And FW models are tournament legal here.
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 17:57   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: piranhas are the worth it?

I have to disagree with the idea that Forge world Piranha might be better. Yes it does have a better armor rating, but it is armed with two rail rifles IIRC. While I don't know if they are twin linked or not (I think they are), I can not see the Rail rifle being any better on the field for either of the two roles that the vechile normally plays. Unless it's to be a TEQ hunter, I just don't see the advantage of a rail rifle over the burst cannon. You lose a shot to gain AP 2 and S +1? Doesn't seem like a good trade. The standard bolter still has about the same chance of downing your skimmer at AV 10 or 11 and anything stronger then that just will not care.

As a TEQ hunter, far better to rig up a bunch of Fireknife/Death Rain Crisis suits and pepper them to death.

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If a Land Raider dies to a rail gun, and no one was around to see it, does the kill point still exist?
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 18:02   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: piranhas are the worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranzin927
I have to disagree with the idea that Forge world Piranha might be better. Yes it does have a better armor rating, but it is armed with two rail rifles IIRC. While I don't know if they are twin linked or not (I think they are), I can not see the Rail rifle being any better on the field for either of the two roles that the vechile normally plays. Unless it's to be a TEQ hunter, I just don't see the advantage of a rail rifle over the burst cannon. You lose a shot to gain AP 2 and S +1? Doesn't seem like a good trade. The standard bolter still has about the same chance of downing your skimmer at AV 10 or 11 and anything stronger then that just will not care.

As a TEQ hunter, far better to rig up a bunch of Fireknife/Death Rain Crisis suits and pepper them to death.
Even worse, it only qualifies as a MEQ-hunter - Rail Rifles are AP3.

The big advantage would be range. Normally, a Piranha needs to get up-close to engage the enemy, which exposes it to a lot of enemy fire. On the other hand, with Rail Rifles, it can sit back a comfy 30+ inches, and slug away at the enemy, forcing pinning checks and enjoying the 4+ Disruption Pod cover save....

Cheers,
-Bone
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