Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Carbines on Fire Warriors
Reply
Old 15 Apr 2009, 19:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 139
Default Carbines on Fire Warriors

I did a quick search and I didn't see anything recent, and since I'm not a necromancer I didn't want to ressurect some old dead thread.

Firstly, I'm still inexperienced with the new ruleset and the new Tau codex, so this may be coming slightly from ignorance. I was thinking of adding a squad of 12 fire warriors, all with carbines, to my army mounted in a DF. I know there are some standard tactics that Tau strategies that players use and standard list styles, but I've always been a fan of being unconventional.

I have a few questions for the community here:
  • Have you ever used a full carbine squad of fire warriors?
  • If you have, what kind of success did you have?
  • The codex mentions a photon grenade launcher for carbines, but I couldn't find mention of points cost or functionality.
    • Does it cost +1 point extra per model as the grenades would or is it free?
    • Does it function the same as grenades? If so, how is the option of a grenade launcher any different than the grenades that they can already use?
  • Is the DF worth the points for this squad?

I like the concept of always being able to shoot 18" and have the chance to pin on an unsaved wound (or is it a strict kill?). Statistically speaking, the carbines are just as likely to kill as fire warriors with rifles that are moving, or shooting at range.

I feel they'd be really effective at cutting down lighter infantry, and just as effective with marines since they would have more mobility, and the extra firepower of the DF. I'm not suggesting here that they're as effective as full rapid fire shots, just when they're in that 12-18" range where I could hit them without them being able to run up and hack my face off. Also, grenade launcher question pending, it would allow them to be slightly less molested if they get charged making them a little better as front line troops.

Anway, thanks in advance for the feedback.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by enderwiggin
I can honestly say that if ML's were changed to Assault 1 that there would be an entire sub-set of Tau players ruining the front of their pants while an entire group of opponents would be ruining the back of their pants.
Mister Kay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Apr 2009, 19:43   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,876
Send a message via MSN to LordZanuu
Default Re: Carbines on Fire Warriors

I believe that the Photon Grenade Launcher comes free with the gun.
I have used a full squad of Carbine Warriors, they are quite effective, especially at the Move and Shoot tactics.
The pinning rules (IIRC) are that if a squad suffers an unsaved wound then it has to check for Pinning, but this is usually in vain as it is extremely difficult to pin enemy squads as it is very easy for units to have Ld 10 nowadays (Vox Casters, nearby Heroes, etc).
I love the Carbines strength 5, as it beats a bolter anyday (unless that day is when they are in Rapid Fire range).

Would I be alone in thinking that the Carbine should be Assault 2 to make it worthwhile?
Going very slightly off topic. They are very effective at taking down light infantry such as Gaunts and Guard without Carapace armour (Carapace gives 4+ armour).

Grenade Launchers do make a bit of difference, but then again, they are still Tau, so suck in CC. If anything, I would recommend having them infront of a squad of Kroot, so that hopefully the Fire Warriors hold out until the Kroot can counter-charge.

Hopefully there's enough sense in there for it to be considered a valid post

- LordZanuu
__________________
Tau: W-44 L-7 T-7
Eldar: W-21 L-6 T-4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapter Master Seth
you can never go wrong with a little promethium.
Your resident MathHammerererer-er.
LordZanuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Apr 2009, 19:57   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 60
Default Re: Carbines on Fire Warriors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Kay
[list][*]The codex mentions a photon grenade launcher for carbines, but I couldn't find mention of points cost or functionality.
  • Does it cost +1 point extra per model as the grenades would or is it free?
  • Does it function the same as grenades? If so, how is the option of a grenade launcher any different than the grenades that they can already use?
The photon grenade launcher has nothing to do with photon grenades, it is simply responsible for the pinning effect of the weapon. If they want photon grenades they have to buy them in the usual way.
__________________

Is it too much to ask for you to click on them? Just click. Is all.

Humpty Dumpty was PUSHED!

All fungi are edible, some only once.
the crazy one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Apr 2009, 19:58   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 104
Send a message via AIM to Militarized
Default Re: Carbines on Fire Warriors

This got me thinking... if you stacked the pinning test with markerlights on a certain target you could, excluding your opponet being lucky, almost guarantee that a specific unit is pinned. You could also be wasting markerlights but hey... imagine that squad is just 6 inches away from an objective to contest it and you need to make sure they don't get there? Pinning might be a more reliable way .
__________________
"Don't try and tell us, that we're too loud! CAUSE THEIR AIN'T NO WAY THAT WE'LL EVER TURN DOWN!!"

"What do you think of Metallica?" - Reporter. "I don't listen to country music" -Joey Demaio, one of the KINGS OF METAL.
Militarized is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Apr 2009, 20:03   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 104
Send a message via AIM to Militarized
Default Re: Carbines on Fire Warriors

Quote:
Originally Posted by the crazy one
The photon grenade launcher has nothing to do with photon grenades, it is simply responsible for the pinning effect of the weapon. If they want photon grenades they have to buy them in the usual way.
Um, I thought that was explained by the ability to lay more shots down with the pulse carbine? Thought that was in the description. The photon nade launcher worked like photon nades with the pathfinders I thought, or can you buy photon nades for them as well? That would prove the point I assume.
__________________
"Don't try and tell us, that we're too loud! CAUSE THEIR AIN'T NO WAY THAT WE'LL EVER TURN DOWN!!"

"What do you think of Metallica?" - Reporter. "I don't listen to country music" -Joey Demaio, one of the KINGS OF METAL.
Militarized is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Apr 2009, 20:14   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 146
Default Re: Carbines on Fire Warriors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Militarized
Um, I thought that was explained by the ability to lay more shots down with the pulse carbine? Thought that was in the description. The photon nade launcher worked like photon nades with the pathfinders I thought, or can you buy photon nades for them as well? That would prove the point I assume.
Yes, you can buy photons separately in a pathfinder squad.

Photons grenades aren't exactly intended to kill. They are basically a strobe light/firecracker all rolled up into one. By making loud noises and bright flashy lights, they confuse the enemy.
__________________
What good is pure Strategy without a good story behind it?
Gorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Apr 2009, 20:26   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 60
Default Re: Carbines on Fire Warriors

@Militarized: Yes, the carbine + markerlight idea has merit BUT you'd need a lot of markerlights to make it work. First boost BS, then get rid of the inevitable 5th ed cover save, then lower leadership. Yep, a lot.

Pathfinders can take nades, and what do you mean by laying down more shots with the carbine?

PS Double posting is not appreciated here, just edit your first post.


@Gorin: Thanks for mentioning that.
__________________

Is it too much to ask for you to click on them? Just click. Is all.

Humpty Dumpty was PUSHED!

All fungi are edible, some only once.
the crazy one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Apr 2009, 20:38   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 104
Send a message via AIM to Militarized
Default Re: Carbines on Fire Warriors

Woops, didn't mean to double post, sorry.

By the extra fire I just meant that's the description they give, thus why it's pinning. I always thought of it has lots of fire from the hip, thus being assault and instead of being assault 2 they gave it pinning instead(back when we could pin stuff lol).

And about the MLs... well, if you're firing at MEQs, which is typical, theres no point in cover saves. Maybe waste 1 ML on a bonus to BS but you could just hope for the best with 1 kill I suppose and tank their LD. Probally not very reliable though.
__________________
"Don't try and tell us, that we're too loud! CAUSE THEIR AIN'T NO WAY THAT WE'LL EVER TURN DOWN!!"

"What do you think of Metallica?" - Reporter. "I don't listen to country music" -Joey Demaio, one of the KINGS OF METAL.
Militarized is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Apr 2009, 20:51   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 60
Default Re: Carbines on Fire Warriors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Militarized
And about the MLs... well, if you're firing at MEQs, which is typical, theres no point in cover saves. Maybe waste 1 ML on a bonus to BS but you could just hope for the best with 1 kill I suppose and tank their LD. Probally not very reliable though.
Hmmm yes, it's too much of a one trick pony I suppose.
__________________

Is it too much to ask for you to click on them? Just click. Is all.

Humpty Dumpty was PUSHED!

All fungi are edible, some only once.
the crazy one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Apr 2009, 20:56   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fifth circle of hell
Posts: 3,150
Default Re: Carbines on Fire Warriors

[list]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Kay
Firstly, I'm still inexperienced with the new ruleset and the new Tau codex, so this may be coming slightly from ignorance. I was thinking of adding a squad of 12 fire warriors, all with carbines, to my army mounted in a DF. I know there are some standard tactics that Tau strategies that players use and standard list styles, but I've always been a fan of being unconventional.
being unconventional is fine. using dodgy loadouts isnt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Kay
  • Have you ever used a full carbine squad of fire warriors?
  • If you have, what kind of success did you have?
  • The codex mentions a photon grenade launcher for carbines, but I couldn't find mention of points cost or functionality.
    • Does it cost +1 point extra per model as the grenades would or is it free?
    • Does it function the same as grenades? If so, how is the option of a grenade launcher any different than the grenades that they can already use?
  • Is the DF worth the points for this squad?
(1) yes.
(2). they were rubbish.
(3) no. you swap the rifle for the carbine. the carbine comes with the grenade launcher.
(4) no. pulse carbine causes pinning. photon grenades negate the +1attack bonus for people charging you.
(5) devilfish is always worth it for fire warriors. carbines arent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Kay
I like the concept of always being able to shoot 18" and have the chance to pin on an unsaved wound (or is it a strict kill?). Statistically speaking, the carbines are just as likely to kill as fire warriors with rifles that are moving, or shooting at range.
firstly, you're in a devilfish. cant shoot out of it...
secondly, pinning is like chinese democracy. it just isn't going to happen...

and statistically speaking, the rifle has greater range, and greater rate of fire. both of which trump what the carbine can bring to the field. an extra 6"? please. i'd rather be shooting the other guy from 30" away. 18" is assault range for 90% of things in this game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Kay
I feel they'd be really effective at cutting down lighter infantry, and just as effective with marines since they would have more mobility, and the extra firepower of the DF. I'm not suggesting here that they're as effective as full rapid fire shots, just when they're in that 12-18" range where I could hit them without them being able to run up and hack my face off. Also, grenade launcher question pending, it would allow them to be slightly less molested if they get charged making them a little better as front line troops.
no, not really. as i've said, the greater range and rate of fire of rifles makes them a better option for killing infantry from a set position. you really do not want to be running up to things with fire warriors. as to the fish extra firepower, it has a burst cannon. and it costs a lot of points to turn it into a warfish. i've better things to be buying.

as to the 12 to 18" range, please bear in mind not only are you in charge range for fast buggers like assault marines, bikers, and gaunts, but you are in rapid fire range by things like marines with bolters.

but to be honest, i dont put much faith in fire warriors. i have 2 squads of 6. i leave them in devilfishes. use them as mobile bunkers for crisis suits and basically leave most of the fighting to troops who can actually do something (aka kroot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Kay
Anway, thanks in advance for the feedback.
no worries Kay. just remember that tau players rely on rifles for a reason.
__________________
greatest band in the universe: www.machinaesupremacy.com

"What warriors of men can stand beside the Space Wolves! The Sons of Fenris they are, hardened in the forge of their harsh world, eager for battle and honour. They are the grey warriors, ashen like the wolf, whose greatest joy is to hear the clamour of steel amidst the din of war. None can step before them, they are the first, proud in their strength and jealous of their renown. Through the storms of the warp they come, upon the very tides of terror, but of such dangers they are uncaring. They are the Space Wolves, the Undefeated, the bane of the Emperor's foes."
Deadnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fire warriors, pulse carbines or rifles? Shaso Vectul Tau 23 04 Jun 2008 22:15
Fire Warriors and Carbines Galahad_Knight Tau 16 02 Dec 2006 02:14
Fire Warriors with Pulse Carbines Go Guard Or Go Home Tau 19 20 May 2006 14:04
Fire Warriors with Carbines, or Rifles? sambo Tau 2 21 Feb 2006 17:52
Carbines in Fire Warrior Teams Cheese is Good Tau 30 08 Mar 2005 19:00