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AP3 Conspiracy
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Old 10 Apr 2009, 22:54   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default AP3 Conspiracy

I think it is generally accepted as a fact that we have 3 units that aren't worth their cost (4 if you count the ethereal). These would be vespid, Sniper Drone teams, and Skyrays. Now, the strange thing is, these 3 units are all great sources of AP3 weaponry, in fact, with the exception of seeker missiles, they are our only form of AP3 weaponry.
Am I the only one who thinks GW may be trying to protect their favorite army by making all AP3 weaponry obscenely expensive?
:huh:
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Old 10 Apr 2009, 23:04   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: AP3 Conspiracy

I always hold to the maxim "Quantity over quality"

We might not have much high end ap weapons, but we can put out an ungodly amount of low end ap - make em roll enough saves and they fail.
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Old 10 Apr 2009, 23:22   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: AP3 Conspiracy

i always field skyrays against crons, and they always seem to make their points. You are right however. We are great at the low end of the spectrum with the pulse weaponary, and great with the high end against tanks with railguns and fusion. For the 3+, you have two schools of thought, invest in plasma and a few rail rifles, or pepper with pulse shots. I always find my army has harder game against armies with lots of basic 3+ save troops. Sisters are the worst, the slam the "ignore save" door in your face. Against just lots of basic marines, i have real trouble deciding. but i suppose, in the end, tau are tau, and if they have little ap 3 thast worth it, so be it.

And you are absolutely right, if marines cant have it, no one can Oh and you forogt the ion head

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Old 10 Apr 2009, 23:45   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: AP3 Conspiracy

Tut tut tut... And here was you thinking that Jervis Johnson would EVER let you touch his beloved Ultramarines. Silly child. And while we're at it, lets have a look at what he does instead. Lets two Ultramarine noobs smash each other over the head with the lovely new box of Sternguard they just bought. 'BUT MY UNIT HAS AP3 BOLTERS!' 'MY UNIT HAS AP3 BOLTERS!' So on and so forth.

From my experience of T'au, Marines aren't really a problem. Notably because the word 'Troops' has been omitted from the Space Marine player's dictionary, and replaced with 'Devastators' or 'Terminators', or in extreme cases, 'Land Raider'. This means you will never really have to deal with a Tactical squad at it's most deadly, sat in front of you, where you can see the genetically whitened whites of their eyes.

On the subject of dealing with Sisters, same principal applies, but even better. Wounding on 2+? OMIGOD OMIGOD OMIGOD FETCH ME MY HANDBAG! DON'T RUIN MY IMMACULATELY BLEACHED SKIN! That is my own artists impression of what happens when Sisters meet T'au Fire Warriors. End of.
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Old 11 Apr 2009, 00:05   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: AP3 Conspiracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by leatherback
I think it is generally accepted as a fact that we have 3 units that aren't worth their cost (4 if you count the ethereal). These would be vespid, Sniper Drone teams, and Skyrays.
Harsh dude , Skyrays are suffering from a lack of versatility that's all (if they could transport Pathfinders too though...). They're still one of the fastest sources of ML out there. Good anti-infantry support with SMS as well. And often overlooked by opponent/tau commanders alike on the battlefield from what I hear.

I agree on all other counts though. Especially the Ethereals :P.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leatherback
Am I the only one who thinks GW may be trying to protect their favorite army by making all AP3 weaponry obscenely expensive?
:huh:
:huh: Indeed my friend... no you are obviously not alone given the responses. The one good thing I see in GW's Ultramarine fetish is that they have given every other army in 40K something to complain about.

P.S. And about overpriced Low AP, the Plasma Rifle deserves mention. 20pts for 2 str 6 AP 2 shots at 12" is a little too much IMO.
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Old 11 Apr 2009, 02:18   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: AP3 Conspiracy

Quote:
Harsh dude , Skyrays are suffering from a lack of versatility that's all (if they could transport Pathfinders too though...). They're still one of the fastest sources of ML out there. Good anti-infantry support with SMS as well. And often overlooked by opponent/tau commanders alike on the battlefield from what I hear.

I agree on all other counts though. Especially the Ethereals .
Personally, I love Sniper Drone Teams and take them in all the games I can. However, these 4 are the units that you are least likely to see in a Tau army.

Quote:
We might not have much high end ap weapons, but we can put out an ungodly amount of low end ap - make em roll enough saves and they fail.
Well, what is worth noting is that we don't really lack low-AP weapons. Fusion cannons, Plasma rifles, and the CIB are all quite good. I just notice that while we have a good amount of AP1/2 and AP4/5, we really do lack anything relatively affordable in between.

Quote:
And you are absolutely right, if marines cant have it, no one can Oh and you forogt the ion head
* FACEPALM * I did forget the Ionhead, though 100 points for 3 AP3 shots isn't a great deal either.
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Old 11 Apr 2009, 02:52   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: AP3 Conspiracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquisitor Raikov
From my experience of T'au, Marines aren't really a problem. Notably because the word 'Troops' has been omitted from the Space Marine player's dictionary, and replaced with 'Devastators' or 'Terminators', or in extreme cases, 'Land Raider'.
I think the word you're looking for is "Bikes". "Bikes that count as troops". Yes they have little troops, but it takes a lot to dislodge them if you lack plasma. Well, even if, now that everyone has 4+ cover everywhere.

on AP3: Vespid were disgustingly overpriced in 4th. Sniper drones would be great if they were, say, elites, or troops like SM or Eldar... But instead, pathfinders are fast attack and snipers are... heavy support. Yeah. That place with the Hammerheads. Hammerheads and Barracuda. Hammerheads and Barracuda and Broadsides. Hammerheads, Barracuda, Broadsides and and Skyrays.

Those things we pretty much HAVE to take for our heavy weapons to even exist on the board, as crisis suits are the 'special weapon troopers' and there's little anywhere else. Gee. yeah. thanks GW.

If at least the spotter wasn't a controller, they'd be pretty decent, if a bit expensive for something everyone gets cover against.
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Old 11 Apr 2009, 03:13   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: AP3 Conspiracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by leatherback
I think it is generally accepted as a fact that we have 3 units that aren't worth their cost (4 if you count the ethereal). These would be vespid, Sniper Drone teams, and Skyrays. Now, the strange thing is, these 3 units are all great sources of AP3 weaponry, in fact, with the exception of seeker missiles,
:huh:
Actually, if you do the math both Vespids and Sniper Drones are some of the best units in terms of points per unsaved wounds they can deal. However, that being said, they do have short comings. Vespids are fragile. And sniper drones waste a heavy slot. I would use sniper drones if they were elite.
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Old 11 Apr 2009, 03:43   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: AP3 Conspiracy

The other problem is the nature of AP3 weapons in and of themselves. Sure, bypassing Marine armor is nice, but it is not essentially, certainly not as essential as AP2 weapons up against 2+ save units, or hi ROF weapons against horde, both of which are effective against Marines. This is particularly true in cover, where an AP3 wound is worth only 1.5 high AP wounds, but an AP2 wound against 2+ is still worth 3 high AP wounds. Add this to the fact that your AP2 weapons are capable of dealing with 3+ saves once 2+ infantry have been removed, and your AP2 weapons bypass FNP, and you are better off just focusing on AP2 weapons and hi ROF weapons for the two extremes, hordes and 2+. MEQs will then be covered automatically, as both hi ROF weapons and AP2 weapons are good against them, no need to specialize in a weapon type that is good against MEQs and nothing else.
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Old 11 Apr 2009, 03:50   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: AP3 Conspiracy

The real issue may be the actual method AP works, not just the 3. Because an AP3 weapon is in no way better than an AP- weapon against 2+ armour, you get an expensive gun (because oh look, it can pierce marine armour, which makes sense to a point), that, against anything OTHER than standard marine armour, is just a whole lot of points lost.

Even if that's not its real use or purpose and it thoroughly reeks for anti-MEQ duty, you're paying for that. Hell sometimes they're more expensive than a power-weapon, despite how quick and easy it is to just get into melee (and how many more 'shots' the melee weapon gets in comparison).
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