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Some random questions
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 16:37   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Some random questions


Ok, I was just looking at the rules for the ... hell I don't know 100th time. And I'm confused again about some rules. So I thought why not ask them here.

Here goes:
1. If a commander joins a unit and the unit is wiped, does he take a Ld test? Seeing as it's an IC and no longer in the unit I would say no. But this can be called abuse.

2. Can the drones of the Piranha shoot at Cruising speed? I'd say yes, as the rules from the codex state that they can shoot in addition to any other weapon. This would mean that they fall outside the normal defencive weapon rule. Am I correct in this.

3. Does the commander remain an IC in CC when he has a Bodyguard? It says he loses the IC status untill the Bodyguards are wiped. But does this mean that they can't target him in CC? Or is it just for the purpose of shooting?

4. Same as above but only with Drones. He can still join units as an IC, but is an IC in CC?

5. I could find it in the rules but I'm sure it's in there, must have mised this. Models that are outflanking/comming from reserve do they count as moving? Also from where do you measure their movement if they move in the movement phase? Do you put the model on and start from there or start from off-table. The last thing can be quite crucial for autflanking vehicles, as they aren't exactly small. They may also carry a cargo you don't want to get to friendly with.

(Already) Thanks for aswering my questions.
Greetz
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 17:35   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Some random questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces_808
1. If a commander joins a unit and the unit is wiped, does he take a Ld test? Seeing as it's an IC and no longer in the unit I would say no. But this can be called abuse.
As the rules are written, you seem to be right: if the unit is wiped out he reverts to being an IC. But the spirit of the rules seems to imply he does take the test. "Spirit of the rules", such a rare thing these days...

As for the others, I'm not so sure, but I think it's a similar answer: rules say one thing, spirit of rules disagrees.
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 17:41   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Some random questions

hmm... let me see...

1. I think that does work. Although it is slightly illogical, that does seem to be how the rules work.

2. They count as passengers. If passengers can usually shoot at cruising speed, then yes, the drones can shoot. I'd check the passenger and vehicle shooting sections, but my knowledge of whether passengers can or not is shaky.

3. He's part of a squad, so unless the IC rules say otherwise (check here) then he can't be singled out.

4. I'm pretty sure the only part of the IC status he retains is the joining/leaving other squads bit

5. I don't have a clue, to be quite honest.

EDIT: Damn, ninja'd...
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 17:43   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Some random questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by the crazy one
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces_808
1. If a commander joins a unit and the unit is wiped, does he take a Ld test? Seeing as it's an IC and no longer in the unit I would say no. But this can be called abuse.
As the rules are written, you seem to be right: if the unit is wiped out he reverts to being an IC. But the spirit of the rules seems to imply he does take the test. "Spirit of the rules", such a rare thing these days...
Exactly why I asked the question. I don't wan to be called a poor sport or as we call it "regel-neuker" (rule-fckr). So I hope this doesn't happen verry often, else I will just ask my opponent what he thinks is best (one of my few good qualities :).

Greetz
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 17:51   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Some random questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by the crazy one
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces_808
1. If a commander joins a unit and the unit is wiped, does he take a Ld test? Seeing as it's an IC and no longer in the unit I would say no. But this can be called abuse.
As the rules are written, you seem to be right: if the unit is wiped out he reverts to being an IC. But the spirit of the rules seems to imply he does take the test. "Spirit of the rules", such a rare thing these days...

As for the others, I'm not so sure, but I think it's a similar answer: rules say one thing, spirit of rules disagrees.
My group usually plays it like Pisces_808 suggested - no Ld test for the IC. After all, he IS a hero, and should press on unimpressed by the loss of his extras (" I mean, look at you. You don't even have a name tag. You've got no chance. Why don't you just fall down?").

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 18:44   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Some random questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrBonefish
" I mean, look at you. You don't even have a name tag. You've got no chance. Why don't you just fall down?"
Oh :funny:, you got me there

I say:
1) No ldrship test

2) Yes they can fire as long as the vehicle can fire at least one of its weapons. They aren't really passengers except when the vehicle gets destroyed/blown up or they disembark detatch.

3) If he's got a bodyguard they can't target him seperately until the (1st) bodyguard dies(unless the weapon/psy-power says 'target a model...&#39. If he joins another unit other than the bodyguard he can be bought with he is still an IC IIRC.

4) See 3, part two. If you purchase him with DC he is still IC.

5) dunno. TER count as moving...




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Old 01 Apr 2009, 03:51   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Some random questions

I am pretty sure number 5 is a yes, as I am fairly sure it says in the BRB that models that outflank count as moving in from the tables edge.
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Old 01 Apr 2009, 04:09   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Some random questions

1) UNTIL the unit is wiped, yeah, he does, as part of that unit. However as far as I can tell, if its shot up at range completely save the IC (and his drones), at that point its an independant character, who has no reason to be checking. He's no longer part of the unit. No's how I've always understood it.

2) As long as the carrier can fire, so can the drones. However, they're not a "defensive weapon" anymore, so if all you can fire is 1+defensives, that'll be the burst cannon or ONE drone, as other than BS they're treated as vehicle weapons.

3) Bodyguard, no, unit (though if its blown up he's IC again).

4) Unit with IC status (terrible in 4th, no problem in 5th)

5) exactly the same as reserves: model OFF the board with base touching edge of board, and yes its doing a move (of whatever distance you moved it from that point).

Outflank is covered on page 94.
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Old 01 Apr 2009, 05:19   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Some random questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces_808
1. If a commander joins a unit and the unit is wiped, does he take a Ld test? Seeing as it's an IC and no longer in the unit I would say no. But this can be called abuse.
I look at it this way, he was part of the unit when it died, so he counts as part of the unit till he would normally be removed from the unit. Since you can't remove the IC from the squad during your opponent's turn (which would be AWESOME baiting a dangerous firing unit into shooting at your unit, then remove the IC RIGHT before he fired, protecting the IC), he would still be counting as part of that unit whether there were 10, 1, or 0, left at the end of shooting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces_808
2. Can the drones of the Piranha shoot at Cruising speed? I'd say yes, as the rules from the codex state that they can shoot in addition to any other weapon. This would mean that they fall outside the normal defencive weapon rule. Am I correct in this.
Per the FAQ: "Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may
only fire if the vehicle is allowed to fire at least
one weapon."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces_808
3. Does the commander remain an IC in CC when he has a Bodyguard? It says he loses the IC status untill the Bodyguards are wiped. But does this mean that they can't target him in CC? Or is it just for the purpose of shooting?

4. Same as above but only with Drones. He can still join units as an IC, but is an IC in CC?
Standard IC rules apply here. Characters with a Retinue (aka Bodyguards) are classified as an upgrade until the rest of retinue has been wiped out, whether by shooting or assault, so cannot be targeted independent of the retinue.

An IC with Drones, still counts as a normal IC, with the exception of Shadowsun. The IC with Drones count as a subunit, and shouldn't be targeted independent of those Drones, but the IC and Drones can be targeted seperately if the IC has joined another unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces_808
5. I could find it in the rules but I'm sure it's in there, must have mised this. Models that are outflanking/comming from reserve do they count as moving? Also from where do you measure their movement if they move in the movement phase? Do you put the model on and start from there or start from off-table. The last thing can be quite crucial for outflanking vehicles, as they aren't exactly small. They may also carry a cargo you don't want to get to friendly with.
The rules about arriving from reserve are pretty clear. Since you move them that turn, they count as moving. You start from just off table to move on, so having a Hammerhead's flying base completely on the table, THEN measuring it's movement for arriving from reserve is to far.
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Old 01 Apr 2009, 07:04   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Some random questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charistoph
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces_808
2. Can the drones of the Piranha shoot at Cruising speed? I'd say yes, as the rules from the codex state that they can shoot in addition to any other weapon. This would mean that they fall outside the normal defencive weapon rule. Am I correct in this.
Per the FAQ: "Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may
only fire if the vehicle is allowed to fire at least
one weapon."
So they don't count as firing defensive OR offencive weapons, am I correct? They can always fire if the vehicle can fire. So at Cruising speed 1+def, I would fire my FB and my drones. Or do they count towards the total, they are passangers no weaponmounts, so I'm not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charistoph
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces_808
3. Does the commander remain an IC in CC when he has a Bodyguard? It says he loses the IC status untill the Bodyguards are wiped. But does this mean that they can't target him in CC? Or is it just for the purpose of shooting?

4. Same as above but only with Drones. He can still join units as an IC, but is an IC in CC?
Standard IC rules apply here. Characters with a Retinue (aka Bodyguards) are classified as an upgrade until the rest of retinue has been wiped out, whether by shooting or assault, so cannot be targeted independent of the retinue.

An IC with Drones, still counts as a normal IC, with the exception of Shadowsun. The IC with Drones count as a subunit, and shouldn't be targeted independent of those Drones, but the IC and Drones can be targeted seperately if the IC has joined another unit.
3. They are a unit no targetting IC.
4.Wait, what? First you seem to say it's still IC, then you seem to say they are a unit. Sorry if I understood wrong but could you clarify. Remember I'm asking for CC-only, I know that in Shooting none of both can be targetted seperately.

Again thanks for the replies.
Greetz
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