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Burst Cannons and Stealth feilds
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Old 30 Mar 2009, 21:32   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Burst Cannons and Stealth feilds

I feel that for what the stealth suits are equiped with, burst cannon or fusion blaster, the stealth field is lack luster. I know that it lets you get close enough to use those weapons and on average if you stay more then 21" away from the opponents you will be safe. IMO it just seems that for such short range weaponry the stealthfeild would protect them better like 2d6x2 instead. Pluss this would grant you a benefit in the rare night-fight match. Anyways that is just my thoughts on it at the moment and was wondering what other players had to say.

P.S. I know that this kind of topic is silly, but I am the only Tau player I know and I don't get the chance to discuss such things with fellow tau'ists.

P.S.S I grant that the stealth feild makes it so you are considered in cover for assualts, but I don't feel that stealth suits should get into assualts in the first place and they aren't very good at it anyway.
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Old 30 Mar 2009, 21:38   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Burst Cannons and Stealth feilds

Don't forget you can jump back after you shoot so the 18" becomes 24". Against units with rapid fire that makes you a bit safer as they can't shoot their full distance if they move. The stealth fields are more useful in preventing multiple units from firing on you, not necessarily the one your attacking. Then there is also markerlight support from 36" where you will be just about invulnerable, but stealth suits are expensive if that's all you use them for. Just remember that a unit that fails to spot the suits completely lost their shooting phase so it is actually rather powerful.
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Old 30 Mar 2009, 22:08   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Burst Cannons and Stealth feilds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate13
I feel that for what the stealth suits are equiped with, burst cannon or fusion blaster, the stealth field is lack luster. I know that it lets you get close enough to use those weapons and on average if you stay more then 21" away from the opponents you will be safe. IMO it just seems that for such short range weaponry the stealthfeild would protect them better like 2d6x2 instead. Pluss this would grant you a benefit in the rare night-fight match. Anyways that is just my thoughts on it at the moment and was wondering what other players had to say.
Actually, its 2d6x3 (with a range from 6"-36").

Well, of course you are right - the Stealth Field is only useful against enemies that are far away. But, as Ironclaw correctly stated, you can jump back after shooting which buys you an additional 6". Also, you shouldn't forget that the unit you just shot at isn't the only enemy unit on the table. There are other units there, too, and they might be farther away - 24-30 inches, for example. That's the reason Stealths make good flankers - they can attack an isolated unit on a flank (possibly after entering with "outflank"), and are quite secure from most of the opponent's firepower.

Also, I again agree with Ironclaw - don't forget that the Stealth Field is quite potent - if an enemy unit fails to spot the little buggers, it can't shoot at a different target.

In a nutshell, Stealths are well worth their points, and I never regreted fielding them.

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 30 Mar 2009, 22:08   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Burst Cannons and Stealth feilds

Well, while it should probably be 2d6x2 at night, I do enjoy the stealth field quite a bit. Its not meant to make them invulnerable, just, up their chances of survival substantially, which it does. I tend to run two squads of 4 each with a gun drone.

By keeping at the edge of their range, bout 23 inches away after moving back, the stealth field grants you a 63% chance of avoiding all incoming fire from things more than 21" away.

Just as effective as, if I recall, the grey knight version of the field. Chances are they'll move closer though, so most likely you'll have 15" of protection only, which is still 36.36~ percent chance they lose all their shots before even rolling to-hit. They CAN move to try and fire at you, and if you fired at them, they WILL be able to.

You've more than reasonable defense against that edge-of-range heavy bolter: only a handful of models in the game other than those with a blacksun filter will ever be able to target a stealth suit beyond 36", and there's really no point in trying beyond 30" if you've anything better to shoot at. The extra scatter is nice, though does nothing against a battlecannon landing the thing on you with a hit.

The burst cannon itself is where a little love is needed... not the weapon itself (though rail rifles would be perfect for stealths), but the fact that while others have heavy stubbers, heavy bolters, hurricane bolters, splinter cannons, shuriken cannons, sustained-disintegrators... our hammerheads are loaded with the same thing as the old XV15. Worse yet, now its a primary weapon!?!

by the way: Markerlight support is bad with stealths. You can get ONE, with targetlock, sure, on the leader, that's no problem; the others can fire normally while it lights something further (a few extra markerlight variants may be good; a crisis could probably carry a heavy2 version or something). Marker drones though are an abomination of point costs and I honestly can't understand how those get put into lists. at 15 or 20 points? I'd consider it, sure. but as is? no. 6 marker drones cost as much as 6 pathfinders and a moderately equipped devilfish, and get you half the hits.
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Old 30 Mar 2009, 22:13   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Burst Cannons and Stealth feilds

I see where Fate is coming from though, the 6" jump back is often negated by 6+" of movement toward them (I'd only hunt our suits w/something as fast as they are, to avoid getting shot to ribbons).

However, Fate, if wishes were fishes ...
I think these speculative if threads are best left alone as they often lead to whining about Smurfs and how we need a new codex etc...
I'm not saying that's where this is now but, yeah...

P.S. I will refrain from challenging Nova to a duel to the death for that Markerlight remark.
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Old 30 Mar 2009, 22:15   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Burst Cannons and Stealth feilds

Another useful thing to do with Stealth Suits is deep striking them. You can deep strike them behind the enemies support vehicles or squads so only that unit really has a good shot at them. If that unit fires on them, well they sort of did their job preventing your other units from getting shot at. If they don't get shot at that's great as you can start picking enemy units off. Usually there wont be anything else in a good position to land fire on the squad.
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Old 30 Mar 2009, 22:41   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Burst Cannons and Stealth feilds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironclaws
Another useful thing to do with Stealth Suits is deep striking them. You can deep strike them behind the enemies support vehicles or squads so only that unit really has a good shot at them. If that unit fires on them, well they sort of did their job preventing your other units from getting shot at. If they don't get shot at that's great as you can start picking enemy units off. Usually there wont be anything else in a good position to land fire on the squad.
It isn't the best idea to use stealthsuits as fire magnets, they are far too expensive for something like that, if you want to deep-strike a unit behind enemy lines to draw fire, get a small unit of gun drones, that's what they're there for
I agree that the stealth field generator could be a lot better at night and in daytime as well, we should at least get the stealth USR
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Old 30 Mar 2009, 23:36   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Burst Cannons and Stealth feilds

First off thanks for the responses from all of you! ;D

Now I am not saying that stealth suits are bad or that they are even over priced. I have 5 of them and currently am trying to feild them with a full compliment of drones. It just seems to me that the stealth field, the number one protection and exclusive wargear of the stealth suits, is underpowered when you take into account the short range nature of the weapons they use. Sure we can move 6" in the assault, but like Shasel_Ahab pointed out that is negated by the 6" move of the opponent. While in most cases rapid fire weapons and some assault weapons won't have the range to hit at all after a unit moves; there are still quite a bit of assault weapons that can try and hit if they are about 17" away after the movement phase. On average they will be able to roll and spot the stealth suits and then shoot them. Against heavey weapons squad the stealth feild is great but may the ethereals help you if they get the spoting distance. OK at this point I am near rambling so I will let it go for now. :-X

EDIT: While I think giving Stealth suits an option to take Rail rifles would be awesome, I have a feeling people would cry cheese or they would be obscenely expensive like marklight drones (causing people to not take them anyway). Also, I really wish they would get rid of that stupid one per 3 rule on fusion blasters... let up to the whole squad take them, it would put them dangerously close to the enemy to use and make each one cost 32 points each base, twice that of a standard SM and about equal overall IMO.
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 02:48   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Burst Cannons and Stealth feilds

I think a cool option, weapon-wise, would be Missile Pods or Rail Rifles (yay new Relentless USR!) for Stealths to provide a mobile, medium points cost, anti-Meq unit. This would keep them in their optimum distance (stealth field wise) and let them lay good fire support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasel_Ahab
However, Fate, if wishes were fishes ...
I think these speculative if threads are best left alone as they often lead to whining about Smurfs and how we need a new codex etc...
What's wrong? Haven't any of you seen a hypocrite before?


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