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what the?
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Old 02 Jun 2005, 20:02   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default what the?

Hello everyone. i am angry, curious, and confused at the same time.

for one shield drones are almost useless for standard squads now because the rule book says you get majority saves. since the shield drones have the only 4+ inv in the squad the people not having an inv count as majority and have no 4+ inv there is no 4+ inv possible this makes them only good for taking wounds or uuntilthere is 2 people left in the squad. i guess i wont worry though i need the points elsewhere.

secondly thy does a stealth suit have a 3+ armor save and the crisis suit also have a 3+ > just look at the armor thickness and you will understand what i mean.

replies and explanations would be appreciated thank you.

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Old 02 Jun 2005, 20:08   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: what the?

Welcome to the forums!

Yes we are all quite upset at what has been done to our poor drones.* They don't see the table much these days, except in specific uses.* There are ways to minimize the impact of the majority rules, but it was a screw-job any way you look at it.

I have heard that the Crisis suits originally all had 2+ armor saves, but that this ended up making them prohibitively expensive to field.* They would also have come too close to competing with the Terminators, and we can't have that.* *:
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Old 02 Jun 2005, 20:38   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: what the?

(crisis issue) i guess that would be a problem terminators are supposed to be gods but just hit em with a lot of gunns and they fall. a 2+ armor is hard to fail but 24 of them. he he ;D i couldn't imagine thwem costing anymore points amy fully upgraded squad cost 230 points :P
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Old 02 Jun 2005, 20:48   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: what the?

I think the real problem with shield drones lies in how they function differently in the shooting phase, compared to the assault phase. The rules of majorities are just off beat when it comes to that.

Shield drones don't do much in normal Fire Warrior squads, or even large stealth suit squads, but in low model count XV8 and XV-88 squads, shield drones can make an appearance. Majorities in large numbers simply mess up the drone rules. No doubt there's going to be a fix on this as we have a codex and a rule book conflicting each other, with only a FAQ to tell us which is right and which to use until they fix it (which is the rulebook in this case).

As for why Stealths have 3+ and Crisis have 3+, they're both battle suits, it's just the crisis has more support systems and bulk due to the weaponry it carries, compared to a hand-burstcannon that stealthsuits have rigged. Model size on the actual miniatures are very different from what they probably are in the fluff, so I'd suggest to not really compare their size as a means of their armor. Remember, 3+ save is extremely good. Power Armor is already insane with it's 3+ save, and Necron 3+ saves are because they're so insanely powerful. For a Crisis of the Tau to have a 3+, using different technology, it's pretty awesome that they've got a save as good as 3+. And 2+ is just unheard of incredible in the 40k universe, yet the Tau have developed it on their heaviest of battle suits, but most notably, they still cannot use a jet pack with it (... yet).
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Old 02 Jun 2005, 21:43   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: what the?

I expect some of the difference comes in the fact that stealth suits are an actual suit, that you wear, while battlesuits are a pod you sit in, that has legs and such, the armour on both is the same thickness, the crisis suit is only bigger so it can contain the technology to make it move etc.
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Old 02 Jun 2005, 23:13   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: what the?

Maybe the CS's armour is thicker but there arent enough numbers on the dice?

2+ is super strong and 3+ is already good. I guess 2+ for CS's would be overpowered.
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Old 03 Jun 2005, 01:24   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: what the?

I know not everybody could have missed this, so please tell me what I am not getting here.. Or.. maybe I am the only one who notices this?

Targeting Mixed Units. When shooting at Tau units containing drones, hits must be allocated before rolling to wound. All drones that can possible be hit must have hits allocated to them before any are allocated to the rest of the unit. The Tau player allocates weapon hits to targets. For example, a team of three Tau Crisis battlesuits and two gun drones are hit by a lascannon, a plasma gun and three bolters. The Tau player takes the lascannon and plasma gun hits on the gun drones. The Crisis battlesuits are each hit by one bolter shot

When assaulting Tau units containing drones, attacks must be... yadda yadda yadda

Page 18 under the Drones special rules. I am assuming that since nobody else reffers to this, that it is shot down in the BBB.. incase it isn't, then notice the wording. Hits must be allocated to the drones first.

-Muds
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Old 03 Jun 2005, 09:45   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: what the?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy
I know not everybody could have missed this, so please tell me what I am not getting here..* Or.. maybe I am the only one who notices this?

Targeting Mixed Units.* When shooting at Tau units containing drones, hits must be allocated before rolling to wound.* All drones that can possible be hit must have hits allocated to them before any are allocated to the rest of the unit.* The Tau player allocates weapon hits to targets.* For example, a team of three Tau Crisis battlesuits and two gun drones are hit by a lascannon, a plasma gun and three bolters.* The Tau player takes the lascannon and plasma gun hits on the gun drones.* The Crisis battlesuits are each hit by one bolter shot

When assaulting Tau units containing drones, attacks must be... yadda yadda yadda

Page 18 under the Drones special rules.* I am assuming that since nobody else reffers to this, that it is shot down in the BBB..* incase it isn't, then notice the wording.* Hits must be allocated to the drones first.

-Muds
Indeed that was been overriden in the Big Black Book, as the new Rulebook will always take precedence over the codexs out before it. Which would be why everyone complains that Drones are 'broken' in fourth edition...
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Old 03 Jun 2005, 10:04   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: what the?

As far as I am concerned, it makes a lot more sense. When you shoot at a group of twenty people, you have a 1/20 chance of hitting one specific person... so drones really aren't that useful unless their hit. Since a drone wouldn't likely be hit, it doesn't count as majority and therefore doesn't get it's invulnerable save until it is the majority.

And anyway, I usually use shield drones with my characters, not with my squads, so they get majority rules.
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Old 03 Jun 2005, 10:53   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: what the?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ui Veta
As far as I am concerned, it makes a lot more sense. When you shoot at a group of twenty people, you have a 1/20 chance of hitting one specific person... so drones really aren't that useful unless their hit. Since a drone wouldn't likely be hit, it doesn't count as majority and therefore doesn't get it's invulnerable save until it is the majority.

And anyway, I usually use shield drones with my characters, not with my squads, so they get majority rules.

The fluff specifically says they have programming to intercept incoming attacks to protect the other tau.

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