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Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?
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Old 21 Mar 2009, 11:37   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?

In my opinion a Crisis suit should gain an extra attack in CC due to them weilding 2 one handed weapons. Since crisis suits are the best thing to use in CC if you have no other option for the greater good. Another point I have is that if you run O'shovah shouldn't all your Crisis suits gain an inherent +1 BS since they are a warrior faction? If I could get everyone's opinion on this that would be great.

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Silix_tau
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Old 21 Mar 2009, 11:40   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?

Personally, I'd have thought that all of the Fire Caste was a warrior faction.
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Old 21 Mar 2009, 11:49   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silix_tau
In my opinion a Crisis suit should gain an extra attack in CC due to them weilding 2 one handed weapons. Since crisis suits are the best thing to use in CC if you have no other option for the greater good. Another point I have is that if you run O'shovah shouldn't all your Crisis suits gain an inherent +1 BS since they are a warrior faction? If I could get everyone's opinion on this that would be great.

Thanx
Silix_tau
Where do they wield two hand weapons? They have two ranged weapons, but that's not the same as wielding two CC weapons. Otherwise, a Dreadnought would get extra attacks for his Assault Cannon, as well (Or Terminators for their Storm Bolter, or Ork Gargbots for their weapons).

And, just for your information: Crisis already HAVE a bonus attack. It's because of their veteran status (they are on one level, attack-wise, with standard Terminators!).

Oh, and if you think Crisis are Close Combat units, you're using your Crisis wrong. That shiny, glowing weapon-thingie they have? That's for SHOOTING, not bashing someone's head in.

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 21 Mar 2009, 12:03   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?

I think Bonesaw already covered it well enough, but put simply: no. You shouldn't even be actively trying to get them into assualt anyway, you're playing the wrong army if that's the case. :P
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Old 21 Mar 2009, 14:07   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?

If you noticed I said if you have NO OTHER OPTION to use them in CC.
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Old 21 Mar 2009, 14:35   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?

Crisis suits should have BS4 anyway. Try justifying how crisis suits (which are the elite of the tau army) have the same BS as a gretchin.

Oh, and crisis suits can be *quite* effective in CC. They hit most non dedicated cc units on 4+, so are best used for finishing off squads which are down to the last model or two.

NEVER, EVER charge tougher enemies, such as terminators, with your suits. That's a 150+ point squad thrown away.
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Old 21 Mar 2009, 16:43   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?

Wrong army to use there Turok, where the shootiest Ork in an entire army is still BS2. The people who want Tau to be a little more justified in their statlines, fine, but please don't try to compare it to some of the other armies, who are worse off in that regard.

And I have to argue against charging tougher enemies. When you have no options left, you need to weigh in which is worth more, the Crisis Suit charging into close combat to hold off the enemies or them charging you and praying you get killed immediately. When you are left with few options left, you have a few things to consider and against a number of opponents, we still hit on 4s, and wound at least on 3s. Fire Warriors should NEVER charge, but if a single Crisis Suit, even the Commander, can hold off an entire squad long enough for everyone in danger to setup, then it is worth the loss. Thats for the Greater Good.
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Old 21 Mar 2009, 17:37   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?

I could see a crisis suit charging that last guardsman that decided not to run after the rest of his squad just got blown to pieces. This however doesn't happen to often because rarely do you have your suits within 12" of the enemy much less 6". Perhaps on one of those TL Flamer suicide units.
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Old 21 Mar 2009, 22:57   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild
Wrong army to use there Turok, where the shootiest Ork in an entire army is still BS2. The people who want Tau to be a little more justified in their statlines, fine, but please don't try to compare it to some of the other armies, who are worse off in that regard.

And I have to argue against charging tougher enemies. When you have no options left, you need to weigh in which is worth more, the Crisis Suit charging into close combat to hold off the enemies or them charging you and praying you get killed immediately. When you are left with few options left, you have a few things to consider and against a number of opponents, we still hit on 4s, and wound at least on 3s. Fire Warriors should NEVER charge, but if a single Crisis Suit, even the Commander, can hold off an entire squad long enough for everyone in danger to setup, then it is worth the loss. Thats for the Greater Good.
I concur, with the right wargear a shas'o commander can tie up, if not defeat many types of enemy unit. I run my shas'o with a shield generator, a stimulant injector and occasionally iridium armour as well. This equipment makes him incredibly resiliant, so even when he doesn't win combats he can speedbump his opponent for enough of the game to keep them from moving on to more delicate units (fie warriors anyone?).
So yes, in the right time and place, and with the right wagear, crisis suits can be quite useful in close combat.
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Old 21 Mar 2009, 23:40   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Should Crisis suits gain an extra attack in CC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turok117
Crisis suits should have BS4 anyway. Try justifying how crisis suits (which are the elite of the tau army) have the same BS as a gretchin.

Oh, and crisis suits can be *quite* effective in CC. They hit most non dedicated cc units on 4+, so are best used for finishing off squads which are down to the last model or two.

NEVER, EVER charge tougher enemies, such as terminators, with your suits. That's a 150+ point squad thrown away.
That's kind of a slippery slope, because then you'll have IG players arguing the same, SM players wanting straight 5's for stats and 2 wounds to better represent fluff, etc.

Best to just accept that it's done for the sake of the game and not argue about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silix_tau
If you noticed I said if you have NO OTHER OPTION to use them in CC.
But that still doesn't get past the fact that crisis suits don't have two one-handed weapons, they have guns. A gun is not a close combat weapon, especially a Tau gun which isn't designed to be used as a club and definitely doesn't have any blades or anything else attached to it to suggest that it can be used as such.

And like it was said, crisis suits already have a decent chance of fending off a weaker enemy when charged (provided you can roll well enough), and they really don't need to get any more attacks. They're not supposed to outfight terminators or other armies CC specialists after all.
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