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Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 18:54   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.

Hey there. So I'm considering a Tau army, and am curious as to how Aun'va's Ultimate Price of Failure works, that I may be able to make psycho-tau...the question is do units in transports have to make such a test and if so, what happens? Also, are there any ways to effectively improve the odds of passing, short of team leaders for all?
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 19:27   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.

this rule apply's to etherals (I think, correct me if i'm wrong) and every tau unit ON THE BOARD must take a leadership check. As the models are not on the board then thereticaly they dont have to take a test. (lastime my Aun'va died i failed every leadership test. all i had left was one broadside battle suit, so i advise against taking him.)
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 19:34   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.

That seems statistically improbable though...sounds like you were real unlucky.
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 19:41   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.

I wouldn't take aun'va or an ethereal because of the price of failure.

I just don't like the uneccessary risk of using and losing him.
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 19:45   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.

The point is I'm trying to make an army that intentionally kills its Aun'va to gain extra buffs like pref-enemy/etc. It may not be efficient but it would be funny to see enemies go "But Tau don't charge into melee and win!"
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 19:57   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.

Well iirc, the units that take the test are the only ones to gain the benefits from it as well. :P

Overall, it's not worth it. I haven't seen a successful list using that idea ever.

In fact, if the enemy knows what's up then he'll likely ignore Aun'Va (unless he thinks a goodly sized portion of your army will run).
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 20:03   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enderwiggin
Well iirc, the units that take the test are the only ones to gain the benefits from it as well. :P

Overall, it's not worth it. I haven't seen a successful list using that idea ever.

In fact, if the enemy knows what's up then he'll likely ignore Aun'Va (unless he thinks a goodly sized portion of your army will run).
It creates a catch-22. If I charge my Aun-va into the enemy, he risks letting it have its way, or turning the rest of the army into melee-tau. Which aren't exactly efficient but still capable of killing nonMEQ rather well (Furious Charge+Crisis Suits=dead Orks/Guard/etc)
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 20:13   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicJuggler
Quote:
Originally Posted by enderwiggin
Well iirc, the units that take the test are the only ones to gain the benefits from it as well. :P

Overall, it's not worth it. I haven't seen a successful list using that idea ever.

In fact, if the enemy knows what's up then he'll likely ignore Aun'Va (unless he thinks a goodly sized portion of your army will run).
It creates a catch-22. If I charge my Aun-va into the enemy, he risks letting it have its way, or turning the rest of the army into melee-tau. Which aren't exactly efficient but still capable of killing nonMEQ rather well (Furious Charge+Crisis Suits=dead Orks/Guard/etc)
It's not a cath-22 by any means.

Checklist
1) Is there a good portion of the army near the edge so they can run? Or is there a lot of high value targets (suits, vespid, etc.). If the answer is yes shoot the Ethereal. If the answer is no to both questions go to step 2.

2) Shoot everything else like normal, if you must shoot Aun'va then try to get units down to horrible sizes or locked in combat before the test.


I wouldn't call the Tau with this buff "CC Tau" when you consider that the buff isn't worth it (since even basic CC troops will still heavily hurt them in return vs. what a salvo of Pulse fire could do).
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 21:10   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.

I would really really advise against trying this.

Aun'Va is the biggest waste of space in the Tau Codex.....To be fair I think Aun'Va is the biggest waste of space in any Armies Codex!

He costs OVER 200 Pts and gives you no tangible benefits

He has no Gun

He cannot be attached to another unit untill his guards die.

He is only T3 for the Purposes of instant death (as are his Guards). - 5th Edition Wound Allocation rules mean you only have to hit his unit with 3 S6 Weapons and bye bye Aun'Va.

The Unit is specced for CC, but still has ridiculously low I" - It will always go last in CC and again has T3 and gets no save in CC.

Supremely Inspiring prescence has been nerfed under 5th - instead of being Fearless you now just get to take unmodified LD tests.....Great...We still have very very low Leadership, so 45% of units will probablly fail, or the unit you were counting on being wiped out in CC so you could shoot next turn will suddenly pass and stand (following the ancient principles of Sods Law).

If he dies (and this is the big one) there is a good chance most of your Army will peg it off the table (Tau Low Leadership again).

So - as a unit for your army he has precisely no redeeming or useful features, and is totally useless and easy to kill himself - and he costs over 200 pts - Frankly I would rather take 200 Pts less than my opponent than field him in my army, the 200 point advantage would be more neglible than Aun'Va being in the list!

However this is irrelvant because in your case you want him to die so you can gain the benefits to CC that he gives you by croaking. - This is a really bad idea on several levels.

1. If he dies you will probally lose at least a 3rd of the units taking the test to Fall Back tests (based on average rolls and leadership).

2. Units in transports dont have to make the test, you cant fall back inside a vehicle.

3. Even with his Bonus we still have a low statline and suck in CC - and most Enemys will strike before us or at the same time - It really isnt a boost that helps you much - because you would be better off firing!

[ 10 Fire Warriors Rapid Fire 10 Marines - 20 shots, 10 will hit - 7 will Wound - 2/3 Marines will die.

[ 10 Fire Warriors (with the bonus) assualt 10 Marines - 20 Attacks - at I 3 (so the Marines go first). - The Marines will have a minimum of 10 attacks - 10 attacks - 7 will hit - 5 will Wound - 2/3 Tau will die. Optimistically lets say only 2 Tau Die (Hah) - you get 16 attacks back - 12 will hit (with the reroll) - six will Wound, 2 Marines will Die - Great - you may (MAY) have managed to draw the combat.]

So you can shoot and face no deaths - or you can assualt (with the potential to do less damage) and probablly lose the Combat (and the Unit) in your turn (and leave your opponent free to target another unit in his turn.

It may help a bit if you get charged (you reroll your misses) but it still wont help you win combat, and as you will probablly strike last - by which point you will have lost half your unit - so your strikes back wont be that effective anyway.

So the only part of your army that might effectively make use of this Tactic are your BattleSuits and Battle Suit Commanders - (If they havent Run off the Table) - But the basic suits will still only be I 3 on the charge, so most enemies will strike at the same time or before them and will still be better in CC - yes you will be S6 but still have no Power Weapons so your enemy will get there saves. Suits do get to shot then assualt so it may help slightly to wipe out the last few members of a squad, but this isnt worth the risk of taking Aun'Va in the first place.

A few final things to consider - Aun'Va only actually does anything for your army when he dies (and it's very debatable that the bonus he gives when he dies is actually any good) he is useless in the extreme while he is alive. -Your Enemy has 2 Options really - Shoot him at the beginning of the game when your army is near the Table Edge, then watch at least a 3rd of your army (that has to take the test) run away off the table. However a cunning opponent (in an objective game) might just leave him alive until turn 5 (afterall he is no threat) and then kill him (with ease) - Forcing all those Troops you have sat on objective to have to Take a Morale test or Fallback....Falling back right off the Objective! - Game over - do not pass Go, do not collect 200.

He just isnt worth the risk, and he wont help you, even in death he has a higher chance of affecting your army negatively than helping them! Seriously - Dont even consider it!

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Old 19 Mar 2009, 21:35   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sacrificial Lamb Tau: A question.

Hmm, let's see the benefits for taking Aun'va then killing him.

Pros:
-Great, so you get Aun'va in combat, maybe you get to make an few attacks and possibly some enemy's but with T3 and no power weapons I wouldn't count on it.

-He dies as planned, you have your entire army take a Ld test, a good portion will fail, better hope your above half strength or bought bonding knives.

-Your Tau now benefit from a few combat bonuses, at least those that aren't running away...

Cons:
- Your Tau are now combat masters, too bad they can't get power weapons, they have a wonderful I2 and they only receive one attack per model.

- Wait, why are you charging when you could be using those Str5 infantry weapons, guided by markerlights?!! Tau have the best weapon for their infantry in the game- use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFishing
[ 10 Fire Warriors Rapid Fire 10 Marines - 20 shots, 10 will hit - 7 will Wound - 2/3 Marines will die.

[ 10 Fire Warriors (with the bonus) assault 10 Marines - 20 Attacks - at I 3 (so the Marines go first). - The Marines will have a minimum of 10 attacks - 10 attacks - 7 will hit - 5 will Wound - 2/3 Tau will die. Optimistically lets say only 2 Tau Die (Hah) - you get 16 attacks back - 12 will hit (with the re roll) - six will Wound, 2 Marines will Die - Great - you may (MAY) have managed to draw the combat.]
Right on.

Wait why did you want to charge in the first place, a wise commander will be able to coordinate his attacks, meaning you can have the benefits of markerlights (increasing you K ratio) and other supporting units meaning you can wipe out the opposing marine squad rather than just killing a few.
Remember Tau's strength is in being able to wipe out a squad in a single round of shooting and coordinating your attacks so you can't be charge by any survivors because they're dead.

- You just wasted over 200 point on a model that went and commited suicide, what else could you buy for 200 points?
-A devilfish and firewarriors
-Three piranahs (with upgrades!)
-A squad of crisis suit (choose your weapons)
-Another XV8 commander, and a bodyguard
-10 vespid stingwings and 3 seeker missiles
- A whole shikt load of kroot (squad of 20 some hounds and a shaper, you wanted combat)

There are just too many negatives to justify taking Aun'va and killing him to gain the bonuses, the points could be way better spent, perhaps in Apocalypse as a fluffy choice, but if he gets pegged by a battle cannon...
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