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Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.
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Old 17 Mar 2009, 04:53   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.

So a lot of people complain about Markerlights because they ignore cover saves... which makes perfect sense. We've already generally come to the conclusion that against weapons in the 40k universe cover is only effective because the enemy cant see you, not because the cover offers any real protection... unless it's a bunker or soemthing. Anyway, You'd think that unless Markerlights are more than just a laser target designator as we know it then there is no reason that cover shouldn't protect the intended target because you cant see them fully. Which makes perfect sense. However, due to rules as written since they do not cause wounds then you cant take a save against them. So a friend of mine just sorta suggested on the fly that the best way to fix them would be to rethink them completely and the suggestion was ingenious.

Markerlights will automatically hit, however your opponent will get cover saves against them as normal.

It doesn't quite sound right at first but when you think about it then it's actually fantastic. It works really well in practice. Against units that are in regular cover they get a 4+ cover save. So statistically that means that you end up with just as many markerlights as if you'd fired 8 markerlights at them. Which sounds like a needless change but here's where it gets balanced.

Now, when you're shooting a unit of something like Eldar Rangers or a Lictor the lictor will still get their 2+ cover save because they're cover save is increased because of their camoflage. Since they cant be seen it makes MUCH more sense for Markerlights to not really be able to hit them. However, if you catch a unit in the open with your marker lights then you get 8 automatic markerlight hits!

So basically they work just like normal against units that are in 4+ cover, they dont work nearly as well on units that are commonly considered to be invisible and they absolutely MAUL units that are in the open. Lemme know what you guys think. I think it's a fantastic idea.
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Old 17 Mar 2009, 04:57   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.

If I didn't play as Tau, I would love this idea. Honestly, markerlights aren't really that overpowered, given their "Heavy" designation and high cost.
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Old 17 Mar 2009, 05:07   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leatherback
If I didn't play as Tau, I would love this idea. Honestly, markerlights aren't really that overpowered, given their "Heavy" designation and high cost.
Oh I certainly dont think this would be overpowered at all. I just think that logically it makes more sense and statistically it doesn't actually make a difference. It's just that the balance is that the units that should logically be more difficult to hit with marker lights are actually more difficult to hit. As a bonus units that are standing in the open will get properly mown down. It makes no sense that trained fire warriors couldn't hit someone standing in the middle of an open field with what is essentially a laser pointer. But anyway, that's my 2 cents.
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Old 17 Mar 2009, 17:12   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.

it may sound more logical but it really is quite confusing when you think about it as they are fine already ;D
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Old 17 Mar 2009, 18:10   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.

They work quite well the way they are, but there are some logical issues that admittedly dont make too much sense and I find myself at a loss to explain it. Frankly I think that changing it so that they auto-hit but only cover saves apply as normal and every other type of save is ignored would make a lot more sense. It would buff them against units that are standing out in the open and it would give units that are universally hard to see a much needed buff against them. As well, it statistically works out to be exactly the same against units in 4+ cover. It's not so much that I think Markerlights really need changing but I think it makes a lot more sense this way.
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Old 17 Mar 2009, 19:30   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.

No. Not good at all or fair.

If you're wanting to get realistic, bring back shooting modifiers. Otherwise I don't want to hear any complaing from Eldar or Tyranids about some BS cover nonsense.

If my XV8's have to sit still as 3+ missiles (or Lascannons) decide to fly through 3 pieces of terrain to hit the him...Then we can ignore a few rangers camo.

If this is really going to be fair, a points drop of at least 2 points is necessary (only for the fact that any more turns these guys into cheaper carbine FW's if need be with better capabilities).
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Old 17 Mar 2009, 20:25   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.

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Originally Posted by enderwiggin
No. Not good at all or fair.

If you're wanting to get realistic, bring back shooting modifiers. Otherwise I don't want to hear any complaing from Eldar or Tyranids about some BS cover nonsense.

If my XV8's have to sit still as 3+ missiles (or Lascannons) decide to fly through 3 pieces of terrain to hit the him...Then we can ignore a few rangers camo.

If this is really going to be fair, a points drop of at least 2 points is necessary (only for the fact that any more turns these guys into cheaper carbine FW's if need be with better capabilities).
I understand your concern. It's just that marker lights would become less effective against a few units that they honestly should be less effective against. And there are only very few units that have rules like that anyway. Against the ovewhelming majority of units they'd work exactly the same. Auto hit with a 4+ cover save statistically works out exactly the same as hitting on 4+ with no cover save. On the otherhand, 8 automatic markerlight hits from a pathfinder squad against units that are in the open is absolutely awesome. That's my 2 cents.
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Old 17 Mar 2009, 20:30   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.

When you can honestly tell me that could be less units in cover than in the open I'll bite, until then I have no qualms about a touch of unrealism when everyone else suffers from it as well.

I can see a cover save working once, after that, the model should be layed on the ground and hidden from the missile, lascannon, lance, Rail gun shot, etc. Why start a realism parade with something that doesn't wound anything on it's own?

The beams are also not that easily seen at all times, that can be just one of the justifications for the beams (fluffwise) not to have coversaves taken against them. Any shots missing from subsequently fired weapons can be said to have followed beams that were "dodged" or no longer trained on the target.
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Old 18 Mar 2009, 05:01   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.

I think the auto-hitting markerlight with cover saves is a good idea. Makes sense, quick and easy, adds realism without complexity.
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Old 18 Mar 2009, 07:32   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fixing Markerlights... I love this idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel.wilson
I think the auto-hitting markerlight with cover saves is a good idea. Makes sense, quick and easy, adds realism without complexity.
that's exactly the point! thanks for seein' it my way. Not that I dont appreciate the other people who have responded. It just always feels good when someone agrees with you, y'know?
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