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Are Forgeworld Figures supported?
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 20:05   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Are Forgeworld Figures supported?

I was looking at the Forgeworld units and they look different and have different weapons. Are they supported by the codex (twin linked weapons on HH for example) or are they simply for looks (Manta). I'm just a tad bit confused as to what Forgeworld actually is.

Sorry if I'm asking the obvious/overlooked something.
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 20:25   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are Forgeworld Figures supported?

Forgeworld (FW) is a specialized wsubsidiary of GW.

They offer specialised model with their own rules (Imperial Armour) that may or may not be used in 40K games depending on:

-Unit type ex. super-heavies and flyer always require opponent permission;
-Type of game ex Tourney or friendly games;
-etc.
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 20:27   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Are Forgeworld Figures supported?

The short answer is 'no, they are not supported by the Codex'.


The long answer is, as you can imagine, a bit longer.

Forgeworld is a division of Games Workshop; technically they are a separate company under the umbrella organisation of Games Workshop Ltd. They are significantly independent though they maintain very close links with the other portions of GW to the point that they might as well not be independent.

Initially tasked with creating models and collectors pieces outside the norm of the standard Games Workshop brand, Forge World continues to produce such pieces in resin, a material more fragile than the plastic and metal traditionally associated with Games Workshop yet capable of retaining far more detail than either of the aforementioned mediums.

Forge World's initial products were mostly collectors pieces; a lot of busts and figures (not to 28mm nor 54mm scale so unusable in any of GW's games) were produced that are sadly now out-of-print. However, as time went on, they produced alternative tanks for Warhammer 40,000 and wrote rules for said models for their customers. As a distinct entity from the main Studio, these rules are not playtested to the same degree that codexes are and are considered by some to be overpowered as a result of this. In actuality, most of their rules are both overcosted and underpowered to ensure an element of balance.

These rules have been collated and published in various Imperial Armour books available from Forgeworld's website.

In essence, Forgeworld models and rules are as legal as you want them to be and the company backs this up; I believe in a recent publication they stated that their opinion on the matter was that all items, with the exception of super-heavies and flyers, were legal for all games. In the case of tournaments, it is a case of whether or not the organisers will allow them to be used; they have the final say-so in whether or not anything (even official codexes or rules) is to be used or not and whilst some will let you use Forgeworld models, some will not, so check in advance in this instance.

In the case of casual games, it is my opinion that it is only polite to inform your opponent in advance of your game that you intend to use some Forgeworld products and it would be rude to just spring them by surprise. In the case of a pick-up game with a stranger, I would likewise consider it rude if it were sprung upon me.


So, in the case of tournaments, the answer depends on the organisers. In the case of casual games with friends, the answer is yes, but it's only polite to inform your opponent in advance. In the case of pick-up games with strangers down your local gaming store, the answer is yes but I'd consider it very rude to do so.

I love Forgeworld and their products, and I hope that I've explained the case sufficiently for you to understand. Hopefully, you'll take the leap and purchase some of their models
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 20:38   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Are Forgeworld Figures supported?

They certainly look nice. Perhaps when I get some experience in painting I'll order a model. Could you recommend a unit that isn't too pricey and could be used in a game, ie. not heavy/flier. How fragile is the resin? Will it shatter if dropped or put under pressure (if units get tangled in a box for example). Also anything that might be fun to paint and that comes with a lot of bits so I could potentially use them to modify some of my GW HQs etc.

Edit/Addition:

I'm surprised GW lets them 'mooch' off of them... I mean they require you to purchase new rule books. Sounds a little like they're hijacking the game. I also doubt I will find anyone in my local store who plays with them (Switzerland). GW doesn't even officially support this country. Also, I'm guessing most local players will look at them curiously (like I did when I played with fake/different Lego.) I don't mean to bash them, I'm just trying to be realistic. I think the models are really cool and could be fun to paint and put on display but I doubt I'll ever play them. I don't see why GW doesn't buy/incorporate some of the ideas. Surely something like the medical drones could come in handy if introduced correctly. I'm new to WH40k but it seems the 'new' Vespids don't really 'belong'. These ForgeWorld Kroot mounts could have likely covered the same role - or Kroot riding Pterodactyls. Then again I'm just a babbling new player and havn't really sat down to get acquainted with the fluff...
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 20:49   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are Forgeworld Figures supported?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleven
They certainly look nice. Perhaps when I get some experience in painting I'll order a model. Could you recommend a unit that isn't too pricy and could be used in a game, ie. not heavy/flyer. How fragile is the resin? Will it shatter if dropped or put under pressure (if units get tangled in a box for example). Also anything that might be fun to paint and that comes with a lot of bits so I could potentially use them to modify some of my GW HQs etc.
That's your problem. FW 40K product tend to be pricey but for easily use in game I would recommande the XV-88 variant (with the railgun on the arms and the secondary weapon (SMS or plasma) on the shoulder). This is pretty much the same rules as the Regular broadside and the model looks cool.

Resin is in one way harder then plastic, but thin piece are more fragile and it,s not as easy to manipulate nad work, but once you get the hang of it, it's great looking model.
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 20:55   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Are Forgeworld Figures supported?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneguard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleven
They certainly look nice. Perhaps when I get some experience in painting I'll order a model. Could you recommend a unit that isn't too pricy and could be used in a game, ie. not heavy/flyer. How fragile is the resin? Will it shatter if dropped or put under pressure (if units get tangled in a box for example). Also anything that might be fun to paint and that comes with a lot of bits so I could potentially use them to modify some of my GW HQs etc.
That's your problem. FW 40K product tend to be pricey but for easily use in game I would recommande the XV-88 variant (with the railgun on the arms and the secondary weapon (SMS or plasma) on the shoulder). This is pretty much the same rules as the Regular broadside and the model looks cool.

Resin is in one way harder then plastic, but thin piece are more fragile and it,s not as easy to manipulate nad work, but once you get the hang of it, it's great looking model.
Could the same effect be obtained with modding existing units at a lower cost or is it worth shelling out the extra money (about 80-90% more)? Also for the XV-88 to you have to choose between SMS and Plasma before you order or can you magnetize and swap like with the GW models?
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 21:05   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Are Forgeworld Figures supported?

I'm assuming, having posted this in the Tau forum and enquiring about Tau vehicles in your original post, that you play Tau.

If so, then the first thing I can suggest is to purchase a copy of Imperial Armour Three: The Taros Campaign. After Codex: Tau Empire, this is quite possibly the best product you can purchase for a Tau army; not only does it include a multitude of new toys to play with, but it also includes a fantastic story of how an Imperial task force attempted to retake a planet occupied by the Tau. I cannot stress how much you need this, even if you never purchase any of the associated models, as it gives a great deal of insight into how some Tau battlefield strategies work (even if only in fiction and not on the miniature battlefield).

As for initial purchases, may I suggest any of the following models:
  • XV88-2 Broadside Battlesuit w/Plasma Rifles or XV88-2 Broadside Battlesuit w/Smart Missiles: Whilst listed in Imperial Armour Three, these are precisely the same as in the Tau Empire Codex and can be used as such (the 88-2 refers to being of a slightly different design to the standard XV88s). Ergo, if you buy these, you can always use them as the Codex unit.
  • Pathfinder Tetras: Mobile Markerlights on a Fast platform add a significant degree of flexibility to any Tau force.
  • Any of the turrets found on this page: these seem fairly easy to assemble and, other than the Sensor Tower, seem fairly solid so would be less likely to break.


The fragility of resin is mostly expressed through shearing force; if the resin is exposed to any significant force (such as being dropped or shoved hard) it is likely going to snap, particularly at thin sections. Therefore you will want to take care of your models by taking additional care not to drop them and by transporting them in good packaging.

As for converting the models to use the Forgeworld rules, please feel free to do so. However, I feel that using the rules for the sake of using the rules, and not actually purchasing the splendid models that Forgeworld produces, is doing yourself a disservice.

For the XV88-2, you have to purchase one kit or the other; you do not get both sets of weapons. However, as far as I am aware, you may choose to magnetise the 'shoulder' weapons mounts if you desire and swap them out for standard XV8 Plasma Rifles/Smart Missile Pods (either converted from standard Missile Pods or from a Devilfish).
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[table][tr][td]Regards,
MT.[/td][td] [[/td][/tr][/table][hr]What's an abelian group with an associative, distributive secondary operator and the power to corrupt mortals?
[spoiler=Answer]The One Ring![/spoiler]
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 21:18   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Are Forgeworld Figures supported?

Thanks for the detailed advice: I really appreciate how well you laid things out. I will look into the Forgeworld miniatures. Just to paraphrase: the XV88-2 are essentially the same models and other players shouldn't put up a fight, right? The turrets and the mobile markerlights however may require permission from the other player as well as a detailed explanation as to what they do (which might be hard to get since they probably have never heard of them.)
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 21:23   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Are Forgeworld Figures supported?

They are completely different models (they are cast completely in resin and have no plastic nor metal parts) but represent the same unit on the tabletop so you shouldn't have any issues. I have heard of some players who will try to deny you the use of them because they are Forgeworld models, even though you are using the standard GW rules, and the only thing you can do about that is to try and convince them otherwise; it's a stupid viewpoint but some people are pigheaded like that.

As for the other models I recommended, those are ones which I suggested you ought to inform your opponent about in advance, and you will definitely need a copy of Imperial Armour Three to use them as their rules are contained within it.
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[table][tr][td]Regards,
MT.[/td][td] [[/td][/tr][/table][hr]What's an abelian group with an associative, distributive secondary operator and the power to corrupt mortals?
[spoiler=Answer]The One Ring![/spoiler]
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 21:34   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Are Forgeworld Figures supported?

Cool, the book looks extremely detailed.
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