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Firestorm V. Fireknife
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 11:43   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Firestorm V. Fireknife

Okay I have an apoc game tomorrow and can't decide which to take. Both will be taken with HW-mt's and targetting arrays. The enemy well, it's SUPPOSED to be orcs, but if it was just going to be orcs the choice would be clear. but as it is, it could be chaos space marines, eldar, well maybe not eldar. There will be other tau players present but they will more than likely be on our side. I don't think necrons will show up, just imperium guys and ork guys, showing off their new super heavies. (PS, it's 1250 points per person and I'm already taking 4 railguns, 2 on XV88's 2 on hammerheads.)

Edit: forgot to specify which is which.

Fireknife: (plasma rifle, missile pod, HW-mt, targetting array, HW drone controller, Shield drone)

Firestorm: (Burst cannon, missile pod, HW-mt, targetting array, HW drone controller, Shield drone)
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 15:12   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Firestorm V. Fireknife

if it will just be orks and imps the fireknife seems like overkill, i would go with the firestorm. just make sure your teammates know what they can and cant kill before the game, nothing sucks more than your teammate expecting you to kill the DS termie squad that just showed up...
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 15:14   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Firestorm V. Fireknife

Orcs have a high toughness so your bust cannons wont be so effective as they would against guard, eldar, or gaunts.

Fireknives can also cut through mecha armor and such. Go Fireknife
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 16:35   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Firestorm V. Fireknife

Against Orks or Eldar, go Firestorms, as A) you do not want to end within 18" of the enemy as Eldar have fleet on most of their units and Orks have that WHAAGH! move and B) The higher shot output is useful with the prevalence of the 4+ cover save.
If you want plasma rifles in an apocalypse list, I recommend putting them on XV88's, they are our only method of getting 3 twin linked TEQ killing shots out in a single turn.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 20:01   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Firestorm V. Fireknife

its all about how many dice you make them roll- especially now with cover saves everywhere.

Firestorm- just do some math hammer and you'll see.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 20:24   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Firestorm V. Fireknife

Burst cannons have comperable range to plasma but the plasma can rabid fire when able for one one less shot but with higher strength and a AP value nothing in an Ork list can match. Youre getting 2 fewer shots but more adds of killing. Cover saves are something you are always going to have to contend with unless you use template weapons.

If youre going to have lots of Apoc terrain and your worried about cover saves, take an ABFL.

math theory does not a tactician make. But rolling 2s to wound with no save is pretty safe bet even if you dont have as many dice to roll as a Firestorm.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 20:50   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Firestorm V. Fireknife

Quote:
math theory does not a tactician make. But rolling 2s to wound with no save is pretty safe bet even if you dont have as many dice to roll as a Firestorm.
It is not a safe bet when you would bypass their armor save with a burst cannon (which costs less than half the price of a plasma rifle) and if you were to rapid fire, you would be in assault range of Ork and Eldar (even with the 6" assault move).

Just to throw some numbers around.

A burst cannon at BS4 at 18" will
get 2 hits
wound Eldar on a 2+, and Orks on a 3+
and bypass all their armor saves.
This results in 1.67 Eldar deaths/1.32 ork death

A plasma rifle at BS4 at 12" will
get 1.33 hits
wound Eldar on a 2+, and Orks on a 2+
and bypass all their armor saves
This results in 1.11 Eldar deaths/1.11 Ork deaths

It is fairly obvious which is better. Col.Angus is right that numbers don't make the tactician, but what General would pass up a cheaper and stronger resource for a expensive and inefficient one?

On a side note, if you plan on facing Chaos, it would be a good idea to take some Helio+'s.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 22:49   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Firestorm V. Fireknife

okay, if it was JUST orks I had to be afraid of the choice would be obvious, but it's not JUST orks, I really don't know what i'm going up against, the match is only SUPPOSED to be against orks, but that's subject to change.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 23:19   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Firestorm V. Fireknife

Tausand sun, take whatever suits you please.

Honestly the values or differences between the two suit types depend greatly on a huge number of factors. How you play, what you face, what else is in your army, what type of mission you get, how the deployemnts will fall out, what you would do with the points saved, or lose by using the points on these suits...ect. We can argue this topic back and forth forever, and still never give you a final correct answer.

Instead, I would say focus on the big picture. What does your army need to be ready for the large array of foes and situations you will face? Since you are not quite sure what you will face, make a balanced army.


Edit: If you are a flexable commander, and can use either suit to its own advantage, then either suit will preform well for you. Fill in the gaps of your army with these suits.

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Old 15 Mar 2009, 00:46   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Firestorm V. Fireknife

well as they are supposed to be the elite of the elite of my army and are there fore armed with my beam rifle carbine conversion (below), I think I'm going to give them Plasma rifles and flamers or plasma rifles and missile pods (underslung M203 or shotgun upgrades for the M4), but I'm worried about getting over run.

Edit: crap, I just realized I can take the plasmas and the missile launchers if i drop the TA and use normal Multi trackers and just give the commander two marker drones.
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