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How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 03:07   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?

Topic pretty much says it. I have a Nidzilla opponent. Typical setup, 3 fexes with T7, 2+, 5 wounds, BS3 with barbed strangler and venom cannons. 3 fexes with T6, 3+, 4 wounds and all twin-linked devourers. Two hive tyrants with T6, 4 wounds, 2+ and all twin-linked devourers, one is flying/warp field. Four squads of genestealers.

In objectives, it is possible to wipe the stealers for a draw. In killpoins, what do I do?
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 03:47   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?

Well if it is a friendly game, refuse to play. This is your typical powergamer tyranid list. There is not a lot you can do, but helios suits may help as all three of their shots will ignore the 2+ armor which is a big step. Broadsides could also contribute as well as sniper teams against the elite 3+ save flexes. You may also want to try an enclave army where you could put 700 points into one unit.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 04:39   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?

Versus Nidzilla in a kill point game, I would do this. Take as many deathrains (with the third hardpoint either being a flamer (if he also takes horde units) or a targeting array) as you can fit in your list. Take 2 6 man fire warrior teams in devilfishes. Add in a Helio commander and a suit to carry a positional relay and you should be fine. Just be sure to stay away from his units, far away.
Honestly, I haven't played nids since 5th came out, but I think that their MC's are as slow as ever. Just stay out of Close Quarters, either by range or speed, and you should be fine.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 05:32   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?

Just be wary of the Fexes. The melee capable ones have become faster, able to run now.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 06:04   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?

One of the strengths of the Tau army (and sadly, also one if its weaknesses) is that we can optimize a list very tightly to a particular kind of opponent. As others have said, if he's fielding nothing but big critters, build a list that kills them. Load up on railguns (particularly broadsides), fusion blasters, and plasma rifles. I would try running a command squad (or even 2) of Helios crisis suits with a full complement of drones. Also have at least one squad of broadsides, possibly with plasma rifles and multi-tracker instead of the stabilizers. If you position them well, a broadside squad unloading like that could reliably drop one of those monsters every turn. Add some markerlight support from a skyray and the playing field is almost level, if not sloped your way! If you can manage first turn in a non-DOW deployment, a full squad of pathfinders working with a skyray could conceivably unload the Skyray's seeker missile rack in one turn, which should kill one of the light carnifexes. Use a broadside squad to drop the flyrant. You can also charge a few of the shooty monsters with large kroot squads (with shaper for the Ld 8). They aren't likely to kill it, but as long as the 'fex is in melee it won't be shooting. When it manages to disengage from the kroot, at carnifex initiative it won't likely run them down, so they can regroup and bother him again!

If you have a hard time looking at yourself in the mirror after playing a list that unbalanced, then suggest another way of calculating the damage: either Victory Points or 'Ard Boyz style accounting. Killpoints is a broken system in my opinion. It doesn't take into account the fact that one list can have twice as many killpoints as the other. Victory Points are a bit tedious to calculate, but killpoints severely over-corrected. 'Ard Boyz is a decent compromise. If you're not familiar with that method, it's by force-org slot. HQ's are worth 3, Troops are worth 1, and the rest are worth 2. You have to kill them down to the last model to get the points, and dedicated transports don't count for anything.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 06:22   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?

With Nidzilla you have two basic choices. You could go turtle, or you could go mobile.

Going turtle means grabbing 9 Broadsides, each one with multi-trackers. This works real well if you can set up over-lapping fields of fire, dominating the board with your long range railguns and cover denying SMS. This gives you awesome amounts of shots to put out, but Broadsides cannot move and fire without A.S.S.. Alternatively, you could upgrade the units to plasma and ignore his saves entirely, giving you at least the plasma to fire if you move, but costing you a huge amount of points. This will work as long as you can keep the 'zillas in your sights. Use something else to kill the Genestealers before they get to you.

Going mobile means taking a combination of Railheads and Fireknives, and then making sure everything else is set up for kill-point preservation and mobility. So you have full units of FWs with bonding in a Warfish, 3 suit Crisis teams with shield drones... ect. This is pretty much Mech Tau, and plays out quite predictable.

Either way you want as many Fireknives (and possibly Burning Eyes) as you can dare. The plasma from those guns will keep you out of range of CC and are second only to the railgun for taking out the expensive units your friend seems to like (including Genestealers).

If you can field it, large groups of Kroot and Hounds (take 25-30) can take on lone 'zillas in CC and even take them down, and can hold up (but do not count on them winning) Genestealers.

What really bits is if the other player starts fielding 30+ 'gaunts along with his 'fexes, and swaps you with targets. The Genestealers, as scary as they are, are not as impossible to destroy with the same weapons you use to take out the bigger targets.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 09:55   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?

the attitude of simple not playing the list is worst thing someone can do for the hobby. Just down right disgraceful and unsportsman like. Great advice on that one. I have beat nidzilla with a ninja tau list that utilized a ton of outflanking units. On top of it it was a screaming nidzilla list. have a look at my 2000pt ninja tau list in the army board.
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 12:50   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?

9 Broadsides, really? setting aside how unfair that would be to nidzilla, who can afford the cash or points for nine broadsides? I mean at a minimum that 720 pt's well over half your forces for most games.

that being said heres my list I would take against the man.

HQ
Centurion

Elites

none
Troops

1 fire warrior sha'ui ( Markerlight, HW drone controller, two marker drones)
11 fire warriors

1 fire warrior sha'ui ( Markerlight)
11 fire warriors



20 kroot, 5 kroot hounds

20 kroot, 5 kroot hounds



Heavy support

1 XV88 broadside leader (targetting array hardwired drone controller, 2 shield drones)
2 XV88 broadsides (Targetting array)

1 XV88 broadside leader (targetting array hardwired drone controller, 2 shield drones)
2 XV88 broadsides (Targetting array)

Hammerhead (railgun turret, multi-tracker, burst cannons, disruption pod)

comes in at 1495, and should be able to vaporize his carnifexes , provided he doesn't get lucky on those invul saves. Expensive to buy as all get out yes but .... what can you do?

edit: just saw he doesn't get invul saves, you'll be dropping at least one fex per turn, count it as a curse if you don't. That's over 60 basic shots, with 80 after you drop the fexes. Then there is that pie plate you can drop to make the genestealers do a dissapearing act. Seriously, if tyrannids had an army that was their weakness, it's tau. The reverse also holds true cause with leaping they will be on your front line in 1- turns
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 16:19   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?

Dont know if it help but here is the Link to a battle report for a Tau V Nid fight I had - It is a tailored list just for Tyrannids but it was very very effective.

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=76379.0

The humble missile Pod will Kill a MC a turn quite happily if you Focus your fire - in the case of Tyrants its either a one turn kill or a 2 turn (if he takes Tyrant Guard). Just Deploy your Troops away from the flanks (So the Stealers cannot Outflank into them) and let your Fire Warriors, Kroot and Devilfish take out the little stuff while your Crisis Suits fire enmasse at the big stuff.

With 30 S7 Missiles a turn blasting towards them, hitting on 3's, rerolling misses, and wounding on 3's (or 4's) there wont be to much left when the smoke clears.

Perversely this set up worked better for me than any railgun heavy combinations I tried in 5th. My regular opponent always takes 2 - 3 Tyrant Guard (which gives his Tyrant a coversave under the unit majority rules) and I found that 3 HammerHeads were actually unable to Kill one of these units during a battle! - Assuming you fire 3 Shots a turn, 2 will hit and probablly wound - the Wounds are allocated to a Tyrant Guard who then gets a 4+ save. - So 3 Hammerheads average 1 Wound a turn, it takes 6 turns just to strip away the Guard! Against Fexes they were better, but it still takes 3 Hammer Heads 3 turns to Kill a Fex....Not good odds!

Broadsides do work better - as you can bring a greater number of Rail Guns to the Table, however 3 Broadsides will still only on average cause 1 Wound a turn on a Tyrant unit with Guard - so again a 6 turn kill! But if you take 2 Units of Broadsides you can narrow this down to a 3 turn Kill. 3 Broadsides will probablly kill a Fex in 2 / 3 Turns, But again, 6 Broadsides will do the Job in one turn. They do eat up alot of Points however -(Between 500 - 600 points for 6 depending on your set up) and you have to equip them with the A.S.S and then have a Team Leader for your Shiel Drones, TL and BK. The reason I say you have to give them the A.S.S is that you have to be able to Move and fire against Nids - and a turn spent moving without it is a turn that 600 odd points of Monstrous Creature death is not firing.

Whereas Crisis Suits with TL MP and TA can move 12 a Turn and keep firing, and can one or two turn kill any MC on the Table - Its a better option.

Good Luck with finding your solution, and I hope the Link helps. Nids V Tau is always a toucgh fight becasue the armies are diametric opposites, and while the Tau have masses of Anit Tank weapons, these same weapons are not necessarily much good against MC's. Just keep trying new things and you will find the Tactic that works for you
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Old 14 Mar 2009, 16:30   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How to beat Nidzilla with Tau in killpoints?

I know that you had some success against a Tyranid monstrous creature list with Deathrains, but I just can't believe that it will normally be effective. 30 TL missiles at BS 4 still will only give an average of 2.22 wounds a turn against 2+ saves. That's a significant portion of your armies firepower to not even kill half of a 5 wound carnifex. Just doesn't seem like that is going to cut it.
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