Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit
Closed Thread
Old 01 Jun 2005, 00:05   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 90
Default Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit

What strategies are out there for taking down the new Nids? I would like to do this unit by unit so that we may turn this into a tactica to add to the tactics section.

Thus far, I have only faced the new Nids once, so I am afraid I do not really have much to say at the moment. However, my most common opponant will be Nids once my friend finishes his army. He plans on having a little bit of everything by the time he is done so that he can make just about any list. This means that in time I should be experienced in dealing with just about any type of Nid...

-Muds
Muddy is offline  
Old 01 Jun 2005, 00:23   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Idaho
Posts: 762
Send a message via MSN to freaky_beef
Default Re: Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit

Well, the nids have gotten better at shooting in this new dex. Not to mentio CC. Overall, the new codex is AMAZING for the nids.

Anyways, unit by unit:

Monsterous creatuers such as the Hive Tyrant and The Carnifex should be taken with the utmost precaution.

Rail Guns are obviosly the best choice for ripping down the Monsterous creatures.
But secondary choices would definatly have to be the low ap weapons such as the plasma (str 6, ap 2) and the blaster (str 8, ap 1)

As for the guants, those guys can be ripped down EASY with basic Ap 5 weapons.

Genestealers, in the new dex, have a 5+ save, and can be upgraded to a 4+. My guess is while facing Tau, (basic infantry weapon is AP5) so they will upgrade to 4+ and get the save against most things. Genestealers can be taken down easily with Missle Pods. Dont let these guys get to CC, especially if they are with a broodlord. Which brings me to my next point, if they have a broodlord, they will infiltrate. And if they infiltrate, it will hurt if you dont kill em quick.

Warriors cant be instakilled anymore, so dont bother shooting them with a str 8 weapon anymore. Missle pods will do fine

Ravners have DEFINATLY improved since the last dex. Much better in cc, so kill em before they get close. They have a 5+ armour save. Should be easy to kill.

Just about everything else can be taken down pretty easy.

Prioritys should be
1. Any unit that can assult next turn
2. Monsterous creatures
3. Fast creatures
4. Genestealers
5. Massive squads of anything

Suggestios for what to use!
  • Rail Head, becuase the subs will kill all the troops that the nids have to offer, and its capable of klling the Fex and Tyrant
  • Crisis with Fire Kinfe, cause the Missle Pod will kill stealers and warriors, where as the plasma can deal with the fex, tyrant, or basically anything you dislike. Plus, you can jump, shoot, jump.[
  • Stealth, the burstcannons will MOW down hordes of troops of guants at a time. Plus, you can jump, shoot, jump. Be sure to infiltrate to do some serious killing from the get go!
  • Kroot, well unfortonatly, you knew against the nids that CC will hapen. Hide the kroot in forests, shooting out, when they get close enough, tie em up in CC and hopefully do some damage. Or you could even wait till they charge you while in cover. Either way, it takes stress off of your shooters!
  • Devilfish w/ FW, Fish of fury with 2 DF, so it takes longer to get to your fish. Be selective about who you do this too, as the guants might be able to rape you next turn

Tactics (Basic stuff)
  • Move around and stick together to concentrate fire
  • Shoot the crap out of them
  • Dont get in CC
There you go. Just dont get in CC, or youll be screwed!
freaky_beef is offline  
Old 01 Jun 2005, 01:00   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 350
Default Re: Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit

I'll try and supplement the above post as much as possible:

Hive Tyrants

Fighting a hive tyrant isn't so much about the perfect "counter unit", because as of the new Tyranid codex (and as of always ^^) they'll take a lot of punishment. Even a railgun will take a handful of shots to bring it down. Instead, what will truly be the determining factor is where, when, and under what terms you fight the beastie.

A hive tyrant reminds me of a Queen from Aliens, and as such it can also be likened to a queen in chess. A queen played too early, is dangerous and wasteful. A queen played too late, can cost you the game.

"Shoot the Big Ones" is an important rule here. You don't need to make leadership tests to shoot the tyrant. If you can place threatning lines of fire over their tyrant, you can force a decision. Attack, or take cover. Either of which can serve your purposes. If you force the tyrant to attack, try focusing on removing its support, so it finds itself standing alone in an empty field, when all of your boys pack up and run.

Variations: Tyrants with guns are more likely to take option C, which is take a slower advance and go shooty. This can actually prove beneficial, as it buys you time to take it down in a more traditional manner. A winged hive tyrant, again, is prone to overextension. Pull an "Alexander The Great", and spread your troops out, rather than maintaining a single focal point. If he answers and spreads out as well, this will leave the tyrant more exposed. If he doesn't answer, use your mobility to flank him.
(EDIT: You don't want to scatter into the wind. Instead, aim to flow around them in such a way that you can still concentrate fire. You want to remain somewhat agressive.)

Warriors

These guys make for pretty good targets. They're synapse creatures, yet aren't tough enough to withstand sustained fire. They can be pretty scary, but they tend to move with the bulk of the army, as they're needed to control it. I've found success against these fellows using missile pods and stealth suit burst cannons. Watch out for their guns, however, if they begin to RELY on them, that decision could be in your favor.

Gaunts

I believe that the "Nid Hunter" crisis suit is largely a waste against these guys. A burstcannon and flamer are redundant, when your basic troops and stealth suits have more than enough capability to engage these fellows. Instead give them at least some missile pods, to help deal with warriors and other mid-ranged bug bosses.

Standing your ground against these fellows, starship troopers style isn't a very good idea. If they're leaping (fleet of foot), you'll be very lucky to even so much as make your points back against them using fire-warriors, as they close in. Stealth suits are my favorite toy against these guys, and I suppose a gun drone squad could do in a pinch. The drone squad has the added advantage of being able to survive a little longer in an assault, if it comes to it. I've never had the guts to FoF Gaunts. Nids usually are too clustered and have too much volume to make it safe. Yeah, your skimmer can only be hit on a six. Well, the odds won't daunt the mindless little bugs, and they might succeed.

Lictors

Yeouch. They just got worse with the Nid dex. Originally, my solution would be to spread out, and keep vital and weak troops out of cover (Yes, you heard me) and rely on physical distance to stay out of range entirely. But now they can deep strike, am I right? And assault when they arrive? Not 100% sure, but I remember gleaning something like that from other threads.

In a really bad situation, a sacrificial lamb may be needed. But I like to avoid those situations as much as possible. Who wants to sacrifice a unit to buy time to pop it later? That's practically giving them what they want, and just running damage control.

As silly as it sounds, I would be tempted to assault it. I've done it a few times with my HQ crisis, and he has always come out on top. I'm not totally sure how feasible the numbers are, but at worst he has taken one wound. Otherwise, try assaulting it with drones, while you run/line up a shot. Kill the thing as quickly as possible, you can't afford to waste time monkeying about in the backfield, as those gaunts and genestealers leap forward.

Zoanthropes

I treat these things like more mobile Broadsides. Or possibly a terminator with a missile launcher. Cause that's what his attacks ammount to. From what I've heard, they aren't used too much, but in my experience they're nasty. I've seen em pop a rhino full of marines, and that wasn't a pleasant occurance for Mr. Smurf. Sadly, it can be hard to make one of these things a priority target, with all the other things you're likely to be dealing with. Try to manuver into positions that deny the zoanthropes line of sight, to delay their attacks until you can engage them properly. Use plasma, or railguns.
Yawgmoth1111 is offline  
Old 01 Jun 2005, 03:35   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Idaho
Posts: 762
Send a message via MSN to freaky_beef
Default Re: Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth1111
Lictors

Yeouch. They just got worse with the Nid dex. Originally, my solution would be to spread out, and keep vital and weak troops out of cover (Yes, you heard me) and rely on physical distance to stay out of range entirely. But now they can deep strike, am I right? And assault when they arrive? Not 100% sure, but I remember gleaning something like that from other threads.

In a really bad situation, a sacrificial lamb may be needed. But I like to avoid those situations as much as possible. Who wants to sacrifice a unit to buy time to pop it later? That's practically giving them what they want, and just running damage control.

As silly as it sounds, I would be tempted to assault it. I've done it a few times with my HQ crisis, and he has always come out on top. I'm not totally sure how feasible the numbers are, but at worst he has taken one wound. Otherwise, try assaulting it with drones, while you run/line up a shot. Kill the thing as quickly as possible, you can't afford to waste time monkeying about in the backfield, as those gaunts and genestealers leap forward.
Yes, Lictors deepstrike into cover (and can land on it I think) and then assult. I even think they have more attacks at a power weapon. Not to mention, prefered enemy. (3+ to hit) Lictors are great in v.4 now!
freaky_beef is offline  
Old 01 Jun 2005, 11:22   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 90
Default Re: Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit

That, and so long as one is on the table, you may reroll failed reseve checks!
Muddy is offline  
Old 01 Jun 2005, 14:28   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 871
Default Re: Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth1111
"Shoot the Big Ones" is an important rule here. You don't need to make leadership tests to shoot the tyrant. If you can place threatning lines of fire over their tyrant, you can force a decision. Attack, or take cover. Either of which can serve your purposes. If you force the tyrant to attack, try focusing on removing its support, so it finds itself standing alone in an empty field, when all of your boys pack up and run.
STBO is no longer a nid rule.* It disappeared with the new codex.


As a long-time Tyranid player, I'll throw in my two cents.

Stealth Suits are largely worthless against a nid player who knows what he is doing, despite what people will tell you.* Good Nid armies will have a lot of things which can charge 24 inches, like hormaguants, gargoyles, and raveners.* At most, you are going to get off a single volley with a stealth team before they are swamped.* Against an inexperienced Nid player, or a player with a slower nid army, however, they can work wonders.

Flamers are your best friend against Tyranids.* Again, this goes against common Tau online wisdom, but it is true nontheless.* Two well-placed flamer templates is worth 6 rounds of shooting with burst cannons.* You can take out entire units of 30 this way.* Using them is deceptively simple:* Set out a bait squad, like a small firewarrior squad or Drone Squad.* About 8 inches back from it, place your Crisis Suit squad with Flamers and whatever other weapons you prefer.* The Nids charge the bait squad and wipe it out, leaving them bunched up and standing in perfect striking distance for your Suits.* On your turn you move up your suits and fire away, then charge the survivors.* YES, I SAID CHARGE.* Tyranid squads lose most of their HTH ability when reduced down to only a handful.* When there are only 5 or 7 guants or jsut a couple of warriors left, your crisis suits can own them in HTH combat.* Be brave and charge.* It will keep the nids from moving on their turn, if nothing else.

Ignore the big guys.* Honestly.* They're not going to do much damage shooting, and even if you deploy as far up as possible, they won't be able to charge you until turn 3.* Typically they won't be able to charge until turn 4 or 5.* Like I said, ignore them in the beginning, and focus on the faster elements. The exception to this are winged Hive Tyrants, which are unbelieveably dangerous to tau armies, and should be eliminated as a top priority.

Fish of Fury is an unbelieveably useful tactic against Nids, when used against a flank or depleted units.* Use it as a finishing move. Against the faster things.


So to summarize:

1) Stealth Suits are only useful against rookie nid players.

2) Flamers require a lot of skill to use, but in the hands of a good player, they are a game-winning weapon.

3) Fish Of Fury is brilliant against Nids.

4) Charge Guant and Warrior squads when they are depleted.
__________________
Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.



Don't tell me that you fell for the MTV lie?
The MTV lie is that people who rebel against tradition are thnking for themselves, while those who follow tradition are just sheep who do not think.
It is, of course, completely untrue. The decision to follow tradition is just as much an exercize of free will as is the decision to depart from it.
Doctor Thunder is offline  
Old 01 Jun 2005, 16:41   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,937
Default Re: Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit

very good info. I know there are going to be lot of new tyranids player out there, so i have to learn all i can i only played them once .
__________________
Tau wins 38 tie 2 lost 8

Death Guard win 13 tie 0 lost 2

dark eldar wins 5 tie 0 lost 1
frankthetank is offline  
Old 01 Jun 2005, 20:10   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 350
Default Re: Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit

I'd say that stealth suits still have their place. As a decoy, or even still as a solid fighting unit. If you place them such that charging them is a bad idea, they won't get charged. (I.E. It forces them to leave sight-blocking cover, and puts them in LoS for a submunitions shot)
Yawgmoth1111 is offline  
Old 01 Jun 2005, 20:25   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,260
Default Re: Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Thunder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth1111
"Shoot the Big Ones" is an important rule here. You don't need to make leadership tests to shoot the tyrant. If you can place threatning lines of fire over their tyrant, you can force a decision. Attack, or take cover. Either of which can serve your purposes. If you force the tyrant to attack, try focusing on removing its support, so it finds itself standing alone in an empty field, when all of your boys pack up and run.
STBO is no longer a nid rule. It disappeared with the new codex.


As a long-time Tyranid player, I'll throw in my two cents.

Stealth Suits are largely worthless against a nid player who knows what he is doing, despite what people will tell you. Good Nid armies will have a lot of things which can charge 24 inches, like hormaguants, gargoyles, and raveners. At most, you are going to get off a single volley with a stealth team before they are swamped. Against an inexperienced Nid player, or a player with a slower nid army, however, they can work wonders.
You didn't emphasize "can". They have to roll a 6 for the fleet and go straight in a perfect line to catch you 24 inches away. Now if your suit unload into the front line of the swarm, you will kill a fair bit and they have to pull the casualties from the front. Everytime you fire the stealth suits you are removing another inch or so from the from of the charge. This makes a big difference in the earliest they can assault you. And if you find the nids under your range, you can just move the 6 back - take a chance at hitting them - and then pulling back another 6 inches. It's definately not full proof, but the fact that stealth suits will get 12 attacks on the weenies before they can swipe back is pretty big.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Edwin
Also note I have 6 lord level HQ's leading 10 scouts.
Join the arena, and succumb to the eternal lust!
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=9054.0
ShadowDeth is offline  
Old 02 Jun 2005, 01:55   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 871
Default Re: Tau Tactica: Facing New Tyranids Unit by Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Thunder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth1111
"Shoot the Big Ones" is an important rule here. You don't need to make leadership tests to shoot the tyrant. If you can place threatning lines of fire over their tyrant, you can force a decision. Attack, or take cover. Either of which can serve your purposes. If you force the tyrant to attack, try focusing on removing its support, so it finds itself standing alone in an empty field, when all of your boys pack up and run.
STBO is no longer a nid rule.* It disappeared with the new codex.


As a long-time Tyranid player, I'll throw in my two cents.

Stealth Suits are largely worthless against a nid player who knows what he is doing, despite what people will tell you.* Good Nid armies will have a lot of things which can charge 24 inches, like hormaguants, gargoyles, and raveners.* At most, you are going to get off a single volley with a stealth team before they are swamped.* Against an inexperienced Nid player, or a player with a slower nid army, however, they can work wonders.
You didn't emphasize "can". They have to roll a 6 for the fleet and go straight in a perfect line to catch you 24 inches away. Now if your suit unload into the front line of the swarm, you will kill a fair bit and they have to pull the casualties from the front. Everytime you fire the stealth suits you are removing another inch or so from the from of the charge. This makes a big difference in the earliest they can assault you. And if you find the nids under your range, you can just move the 6 back - take a chance at hitting them - and then pulling back another 6 inches. It's definately not full proof, but the fact that stealth suits will get 12 attacks on the weenies before they can swipe back is pretty big.
Try it out in a few games and then let me know how it worked for you.* If you can make it work for you, great, but it sounds like you are talking about theory and not actual game experience.* I don't play theoryhammer.* Every time my Nids have faced Stealth Suits, even when fielded by good players, the suits have been horribly slaughtered before they did anything useful, and, in a couple of situations, allowed my nids to springboard forward farther then they would have been able to normally.
In actual game play, in my experience, Nids are just too fast and it is far too difficult to keep your stealth suits exactly the right distance away for them to be useful.* I know a lot of people really really love their stealthsuits, but I think it is a mistake to take them against fast nid armies.
__________________
Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.



Don't tell me that you fell for the MTV lie?
The MTV lie is that people who rebel against tradition are thnking for themselves, while those who follow tradition are just sheep who do not think.
It is, of course, completely untrue. The decision to follow tradition is just as much an exercize of free will as is the decision to depart from it.
Doctor Thunder is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On