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Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 14:39   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau

This is regarding the new way to allocate possible wounds (assigning 1 for each model in a unit until all possible wounds have been allocated), rolling saves for 'like' (pretty sure the 5th edition rule example even included Space Marines with different weapons... like Bolters vs Missle Launchers) models together, and multiple wound models.

Let's say we have a squad of 3 Crisis Suits: 1st suit is a leader with AFP, TL-BC, Bonding Knife, & HW Multitracker... 2nd suit is PR, BC, Multitracker... and 3rd suit is PR, MP, Multitracker. 3 different load-outs.

Say that squad takes 3 wounds. According to the new rules you would assign 1 wound to each model and then roll saves as groups for 'like' models together. However none of them are 'like' models. Let's say you fail all your saves. You are supposed to remove whole multi-wound models as possible, but you were forced to allocate 1 wound to each suit since they all have different load outs.

Is that right or am I nit-picking (or just completely mis-reading) the new 5th edition rules? Thanks for the help.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 14:56   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau

Yes you are correct. Units that have multi wound models that are unqiue don;t have to remove whole models but rather can spread the wounds around. This can be found on pg 26 of the rule book. Here is an example of how I do it in my Tau Army.

HQ
112 - Shas'el Xv8 - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pods, Multi-Tracker, Hardwired Drone Controller, Shield Drone x 1 & Gun Drone x 1.
107 - Shas'vre Xv8 - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pods, Target Array, Hardwired Multi-Tracker, Hardwired Drone Controller, Gun Drone x1 & Shield Drone x 1;
102 - Shas'vre Xv8 - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pods, Target Array, Hardwired Multi-Tracker, Hardwired Drone Controller, Gun Drone x2

As you can see the only difference between my two Shas'vre are their drone loadouts, thus making them unique.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 15:08   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau

Not to mention in your case Hyena that your drones form their own 'group' in the squad, further increasing the amount of wounds needed to take down a single suit. (Gun drones, Shield drones).

While this is great for battlesuits, remember also that it can be used on things such as Nobs in Ork armies. They are also a bit (understatement) tougher than our suits, so factor that in when you try and take them down.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 15:11   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau

what about majority toughness rules
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 15:28   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tausand sun
what about majority toughness rules
I believe that still holds true. But that's to determine how many hit do wounds. Once the wounds are determined then the above wound allocating happens before saves are rolled.

This makes shield drones a bit less useful too since, as one of the previous posters said, they are they're own group. Well... true and not true I guess. On one hand you will HAVE to allocate wounds to your Commander/Broadside,which they might fail, so that's bad. But on the other hand if you have to allocate 6 wounds between 1 Broadside with 2 Shield Drone... each drone gets 2 wounds allocated to just them so even if you fail 4 saves, your drones might be the only things that die (if those are the saving rolls you fail).

Definately adds more random chance.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 15:39   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau

It is true we can spread wounds around but it is not very cheesy, In order to make crisis suits viable in games they really have to be equip with the same weapons or there just not efficient enough to be viable so you cant really have all the suits with different weapons. They are also quite expensive points wise, and not that tough and the last reason is that you can only have small squad sizes anyway.

Compare them to Ork Nobs who you can easily equip diffenently while still making them good at combat, Each one is harder to kill that a crisis suit with there armour save, inv save and FnP save. They are also cheaper than crisis suits and can have much larger squad sizes.

Spreading wounds round on Orks while sensible is alittle cheesy, however on tau its pointless mosly.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 16:15   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau

Actaully if you take the squad I posted up I actually included the two shield drones to keep the majority toughness in check with the crisis suits since shield drones get the toughness and save of their owner. This actually makes them of use. As for majority toughness when its a tie, you get to take the highest value which is a bonus.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 16:35   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyena031
Yes you are correct. Units that have multi wound models that are unqiue don;t have to remove whole models but rather can spread the wounds around. This can be found on pg 26 of the rule book. Here is an example of how I do it in my Tau Army.

HQ
112 - Shas'el Xv8 - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pods, Multi-Tracker, Hardwired Drone Controller, Shield Drone x 1 & Gun Drone x 1.
107 - Shas'vre Xv8 - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pods, Target Array, Hardwired Multi-Tracker, Hardwired Drone Controller, Gun Drone x1 & Shield Drone x 1;
102 - Shas'vre Xv8 - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pods, Target Array, Hardwired Multi-Tracker, Hardwired Drone Controller, Gun Drone x2

As you can see the only difference between my two Shas'vre are their drone loadouts, thus making them unique.
never thought of actually using the drones to make the wargear loadouts different. Considering that the drones count as wargear that loadout actually would make the suits "different". Frankly I think that wound allocation is not a broken system in and of itself but because of how easily it can easily ruin a lot of games. I think configuring your crisis suits differently just to abuse wound allocation is cheesey. But to be fair there are armies that can do it a lot worse than us. Nob bikers are the worst of it.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 18:03   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau

How exactly does all this work, I keep reading the rule book but what you guys are saying doesn't make much sense.
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Old 04 Mar 2009, 06:06   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Cheesy, Correct, or Both... 5th Ed rule question with Tau

In 5th edition, the wound allocation rules have changed. First, your opponent rolls to hit (one die per shot, BS determines what he needs to roll to hit). Next, he rolls to wound, one die per shot that hit, and a comparison of shooting strength and target toughness determines what roll is needed to wound. The target's toughness is a majority or average, not individual models. Once you know how many wounds were done to the squad, you assign those wounds to models. If all the models are the same, it's easy: you just roll all the saves and remove that many casualties. If the models are different, you still assign wounds to individual models, but you roll the saves by group of models. So if you have 3 drones and 2 different crisis suits, you would roll the saves for the 3 drones together, then any wounds assigned to crisis suit 1, then any wounds assigned to crisis suit 2.

Does that make sense?
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