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No Win Situation!
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Old 28 Feb 2009, 08:51   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default No Win Situation!

I played a 1000pt Annihilation game the other day and found myself in a 'no win' situation!

He was playing Space Marines and had only four units including a Land Raider and Chapter Master with tooled up bodyguard!

I had ten units some of which were quite weak if you take into account the gun drones off the Devilfish.

In the end he had an immobilised Land Raider and his Chapter Master with one bodyguard left but had destroyed my Hammerhead, gun drones and one crisis suit team.

3-2 to him, any other scenario and I would have won easily.

I am thinking of always taking two lists and deciding which one to use once the scenario has been chossen.

Roland
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Old 28 Feb 2009, 09:10   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: No Win Situation!

You do the two list thing, and you will become an official cheater,

you had one unlucky game? So what? Tweak your list a bit and move on,

and 3-2 doesn't sound like that bad a defeat for a start.
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Old 28 Feb 2009, 09:26   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: No Win Situation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr X
You do the two list thing, and you will become an official cheater,

you had one unlucky game? So what? Tweak your list a bit and move on,

and 3-2 doesn't sound like that bad a defeat for a start.
Does it actually say in the rule book that you must choose your army before selecting a scenario or is it just 'the done thing'?

The margin of defeat doesn't matter a defeat is a defeat!

I haven't played that scenario before but it does seem to favour the armies with fewer tougher units.

When I say it was a 'no win' situation I was exaggerating a little, if I had taken out his Land Raider before he took out my Hammerhead I would have won.
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Old 28 Feb 2009, 09:31   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: No Win Situation!

Well then, I'd say you just got unlucky and you're being a bit over the top about it, but everyone loses sometimes,

and yes, unless the opponent is ok with it you cannot take two lists and pick the best one for the job.
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Old 28 Feb 2009, 10:19   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: No Win Situation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by StaffordGames
I am thinking of always taking two lists and deciding which one to use once the scenario has been chossen.
Roland
hahaha. that hard pressed to win eh?
the karma on that is if a CSM player does that trick on you. Then you yourself will say that it's cheating.
With bazillions of CSM goodies to choose from, why stop at 2 lists ?

before the game starts, even before the first die is cast, you exchange lists.

I, myself on tourney or fun games carry only 1 list, but if pressed for lower pointages (below 2k) make squad adjustments to accomodate the reduction in points.

you are right on one point though "The margin of defeat doesn't matter a defeat is a defeat!". no excuses.
but in defeat there is a lesson learned.

I'll let you play with 2 list if you let me play with my CSM lists also. Any veteran will say that you've got the losing end in this bargain. ;D


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Old 28 Feb 2009, 14:47   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: No Win Situation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by StaffordGames
Does it actually say in the rule book that you must choose your army before selecting a scenario or is it just 'the done thing'?
Yes, it does, otherwise things like "army composition" doesn't make sense.

But, to deal with your original concern of a "no win"-situation: Easy. Don't play Kill Points. They completely suck (so what else is new?).

Stick with Victory Points.

Cheers,
-Bone

PS: Honestly, I understand the IDEA why GW wanted to include the concept of Kill Points. With an objective- and KP based system, things like "units earning their points back" are completely irrelevant again, which is, imo, a good idea. It's just the Kill Point system that sucks, since armies have different specialties (with Tau, for example, you need scoring units, and you need Elite units that do most of the killing - you cannot play a Tau army consisting of 4 units, that's impossible). Add in the "Combat Squad" system of the Marines (which enables them some sort of control how many KP they offer the enemy), and you have an objective that is highly favoring a particular army.
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Old 28 Feb 2009, 21:11   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: No Win Situation!

OK chaps I have been re-reading the rules and think that I have identified a couple of problems with our game.

The deployment we used was 'Dawn of War' which meant that I had my HQ, a squad of FW and my Kroot on the table to start with.

He had is entire army on table which I now think was wrong because I don't think a Land Raider is a dedicated transport so should'nt have been on table during deployment.

The other thing was I didn't notice that on the first turn you used the 'Night Fighting' rules.

The game may have turned out very different if we hadn't got these two things wrong.
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Old 28 Feb 2009, 21:20   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: No Win Situation!

Um, actually Land Raiders can be dedicated transports depending on the codex being used and what was in it. However, only one codex has the Land Raider as dedicated for troops, and that's the Black Templars with the LRC.
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Old 01 Mar 2009, 02:04   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: No Win Situation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr X
Well then, I'd say you just got unlucky and you're being a bit over the top about it, but everyone loses sometimes,

and yes, unless the opponent is ok with it you cannot take two lists and pick the best one for the job.
I have four different lists I take(MEQ,TEQ, GEQ, hoard), but I do choose which one BEFORE the game starts.
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Old 01 Mar 2009, 03:16   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: No Win Situation!

That would certainly be a different situation then with having lists, and while many people around my area kinda shun tooling vs certain armies, doing so before the game type is decided is the fair thing to do. You switch armies after game type decided, I switch game type or don't play.

But I suppose the most important question to this now is what codex was he using? The new space marine book, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves? Correct me if I am missing any, but this can also tell us some details.
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