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Prepping for war vs Jump Marines
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 03:50   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Prepping for war vs Jump Marines

So I am thinking ahead for my next battle as Tau vs Blood Angels, specifically a bunch of blood angles with emphasis on mobility (all infantry either has jump packs (including Lamartes and the Death Company) or a Rhino to move them around). Plus "Feel No Pain" means he gets to reroll any unsaved wounds as long as they're not from an AP1 or AP2 shot.

I now have a Crisis Commander and two other XV8s, an XV88, and a Hammerhead. I am trying to think about how best to outfit them.

Basically, when it comes down to fighting squads of 5-10 marine infantry with armor saves in the 3+/4+ range, so I want to go for fewer, close range high-powered shots or high quantity, low powered shots at a distance?

The big factor here is that all his jump infantry can move 12" THEN assault 6", which means they can also chew up my terrible-at-CC Tau. So I'd like to try to keep outside of 18" at the start of his turn as much as possible.

I think in this instance, the Ionhead is better than the Railhead because with AP3, the ion shots will still pierce all of his armor and get 3 shots as opposed to the 1 shot rail or the not-armor-piercing submunition. If someone makes a convincing argument otherwise, though, I am happy to hear it (Submunition shot could get more hits probably, but would it be worth it for a cost of 35 more points?).

Also, for secondary systems, I guess Smart Missile System makes more sense because it has more range, does not need LOS, and is just as powerful as Burst Cannon with more shots. I guess in this case a Multi-tracker would be a good idea too?

That brings us to the Crisis Suits. The way I see it, the weapon choices for this instance come down to the following:

Cyclic Ion Blaster - Lots of shots, potential to be AP1 on wound rolls of 6, otherwise not great against tough infantry. Range 18", so I could theoretically jump in and out of his range at least for a while.

Fusion Blaster - Paltry range of 12", but Str of 8 and AP 1, along with Melta, mean good damage when it does hit, and could be a threat to his rhino

Plasma Rifle - Rapid Fire/24" means one shot at 24 or 2 if I unfortunately get within his assault range. But it still has strength and low enough AP to pierce his armor and deny his Feel No Pain rerolls.

Missile Pod - Has the best range of the lot at 36", not to mention 2 shots, and Str of 7 ensures a good wallop. Unfortunately, AP4 means he won't be penetrating their armor and he'll get the Feel No Pain rerolls.

So, what should I do to ensure I get good kills in before he can get to me? Cause dang, those jump marines close in fast...

I suppose I could also twin-link some of these in order to ensure more hits... or is weapon variety better for different scenarios???

Also, what add-ons/extras would you all recommend me giving various troops if I am expecting assaults from jump infantry? Bonding knives for fire warriors? Would Flachette Dischargers be worth anything?

I've lost the past two games to this guy... (See my post below). I'm hoping to play smarter this time around.

Also, what drones if any would you recommend accompanying the Crisis suits/other infantry in this case? Gun drones to try and pin the enemy down? Marker drones to help get hits in? or?
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 04:23   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Prepping for war vs Jump Marines

In this battle, I would take a lot of Bladestorms (plasma rifle + burst cannon + multi tracker) and a team of deathrains. If you have to take drones, take gun drones as they can work at 24". For your commander, I'd recommend a centurion (plasma rifle + CIB + HW-multi tracker + Targeting array on an El) with a possible burning eye+ bodyguard. Versus this army, I would go with 3-6 minimum sized fire warrior teams, all in devilfishes equipped with SMS, d-pods, and if you have the points, decoy launchers as you will want to remain moving.
With this guy, stay as mobile as you can and don't let him trap you in assault. It may be a good idea to take 3x 4 man gun drone teams to act as sacrificial assault units.
Lastly, is this guy going to take any AV14 vehicles? If so, be sure to stick a couple railheads in your list. If not, stick with the three ion heads, it will decimate his forces.
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 09:19   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Prepping for war vs Jump Marines

Man Leatherback... you really need to stop calling the Aurora a "centurion" it's in the naming scheme sticky ffs. :huh:

In this instance though I'd definitly rather go with the old reliable Helios Shas'el granted, cover might play a part, but it's a rock-solid build that can perform any duty required (while the CiB negs for the 6's to wound too much to be useful against the assault marines).

Your bladestorms though... I like that idea. A lot. I've never used them before... But they sound good. I'm going to be starting up a cityfight campaign soon. I'll have to try them out, see if they'll fare better than the bladestorms I planned on using.

The AV14 is an important point to bring up. He can go with two Ionheads and then Two XV88's for safety's sake. He's not really sacrificing any points of AT then. If they don't show... The XV88's can be delegated to character sniping or just trimming away some FNP'ers before hand.
I like running them in pairs with TA's, and a Team Leader (HW DC + 2 Gundrones).
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 11:23   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Prepping for war vs Jump Marines

Quote:
Originally Posted by leatherback
I'd recommend a centurion (plasma rifle + CIB + HW-multi tracker + Targeting array on an El)
Thanks for all the advice! One question: Why an El over an O'? Is the point difference not worth the extra stats? Or? If I freed up that extra suit slot, I could make the plasma rifle twin-linked or throw on a missile pod for range.
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 11:26   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Prepping for war vs Jump Marines

Also, while I really do appreciate all the advice, I should probably let you know that this is probably going to be just a 1000 point battle, and that all I currently own is the commander suit plus 2 other XV8s, one XV88, and one hammerhead (and one devilfish), along with 24 FW, 12 kroot, 2 Kroot Hound, a small stealth team, and a bunch of gun drones. My friend and I just started playing 40k a few weeks ago
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 17:54   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Prepping for war vs Jump Marines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grorx
Also, while I really do appreciate all the advice, I should probably let you know that this is probably going to be just a 1000 point battle, and that all I currently own is the commander suit plus 2 other XV8s, one XV88, and one hammerhead (and one devilfish), along with 24 FW, 12 kroot, 2 Kroot Hound, a small stealth team, and a bunch of gun drones. My friend and I just started playing 40k a few weeks ago
Hmm, if that's the complete list of what you own (and will be using) then I'd say it's a pretty static list (since it doesn't appear to have transport for the FW's). Along with a list we can help you with the player. Firstly though, we really need to know if it's only a Rhino he's bringing or is there any possibility of a Land Raider coming?

If there's a LR coming, one single XV88 isn't likely to KO it in time. Granted, you could be fortunate with your rolls but we like to prepare for the worst...

I would use a list approaching this one.

HQ
Shas'el TA, FB, PR, HWMT, HWDC + 2 shield drones (you can kitbash some gun drones into workable shields if you don't have any actual models). - 127 pts

Elites
X3 Stealth suits. All with TA's. One of the suits has a FB. Small and deadly, using these guys will be hard, but their small size helps with hiding issues. - 122 pts

X1 Shas'ui Team Leader with PR, FB, TA, HWMT (It's cheaper than bodyguards and if you want, the leader can still link up with him or the other) - 72 pts

X1 Shas'ui with PR, BC, MT (though I've never tried this set up yet) - 58 pts

Troops
(All FW's assumed to use their good weapon aka the Pulse Rifle)

8 Fire Warriors- Shas'ui, Markerlight, TL, Bonding knife. (These are the static team, meant to give some extra-light, light ML support and decent fire power support for the other FW's with the Team leader marking another target if needed instead. They can also be a juicy piece of bait with which to trap an opponent who rushes them.) I'd suggest hiding these behind some drones as well, since the cover provided won't matter to 3+ armor. - 110 pts

10 Fire Warriors- Shas'ui, Bonding knife - 115 pts

11 Kroot and 2 hounds (You can try to outflank him, or help out the infiltrating Stealths, OR to bolster a weakened gun line if the drones don't hold well) - 89 points

Fast Attack -
(I don't think you need four, but it might be useful for some DS'ing annoyance rather than defense. KP-wise 2 is twice as safe as well. Points don't help their survivability much, it's a careful general that uses the right amount.)
X4 Gun Drones - 48 pts
X4 Gun Drones - 48 pts

Heavy -

Ionhead, MT, BC's, Decoy Launchers - 130 pts
XV88- TA - 80 pts

If my math is correct it's 999 points. Depending on how much leeway you guys have with your lists (points wise), then another 6 points over gives you another kroot warrior.
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 18:47   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Prepping for war vs Jump Marines

Grorx your question about the El over the 'O is simple in the majority of small scale games the points cost is just not justifiable to take the 'O. 1000pt battle stick with the 'El and put the extra points into hardware
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 18:59   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Prepping for war vs Jump Marines

Grorx though your asking a question I'm impressed by the detail and quality of the post, have a karma cookie.

Also one for enderwiggen.
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 19:10   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Prepping for war vs Jump Marines

Quote:
Originally Posted by enderwiggin

Hmm, if that's the complete list of what you own (and will be using) then I'd say it's a pretty static list (since it doesn't appear to have transport for the FW's). Along with a list we can help you with the player. Firstly though, we really need to know if it's only a Rhino he's bringing or is there any possibility of a Land Raider coming?
Nah, he only has a Rhino as far as I know.

Further questions: Do we really expect the burst cannons to be that effective against Space Marine armor? Would it be worth sacrificing a squad of drones to give the second crisis suit a better weapon, or to give the Ionhead the missile system instead of the BCs? I'm just not sure how good they are going to be if their strength is not that much higher than the marine's toughness and the AP is negligible. Also, sacrificing a drone squad might mean adding more fire warriors to their squads...

Furthermore, given his army is highly mobile, does that make pulse carbines any more or less useful? Its obviously hard to get an unsaved wound with them, but if I can pin them for a turn, that gives me more time to back away... Anyone have thoughts on this?

And do we not like the Advanced Stabilization System for the XV88? Just too point-consuming in this case?

Thanks again for all of your help, everyone! I'll try to take a good log of what goes down in my next battle so we can see how this all worked out.

I feel like its tough, being the Tau commander in this case, because you have to orchestrate your strategy, tactics, and loadout so carefully, while the marine squads can just mindlessly jump toward you in hopes of bashing your skulls in with power swords and whatnot. Sigh.
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 19:25   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Prepping for war vs Jump Marines

Thank you, I do appreciate it Vash.

I wish we had more info on the other guys army, but his opening post suggested that the only mechanized units were Rhino's, which the Ion cannon can admirably deal with just in case the XV88 misses.

I'd like to get more pathfinders if he wanted to go static or hybrid, but if he wanted Mech his warriors need fish (that sounds weird).


Oh yes, if you want your XV88 to be slightly more mobile (and safer in the beginning if you use the correct terrain), you can substitute the A.S.S instead of the TA. Gives you more mobility, at the cost of hitting. The cost is the same, I'm just a light-no pathfinder player in these pointed games. I generally use the TA then. Like I said though it's fine either way and doesn't touch the points in any way.

Depending on the drone situation, I'd personally take a hard look at your Stealth team sitting this one out (I personally don't use them atm, but you seemed to just be starting and I realize you'd probably like to play with most of your models)... Just keep in mind that sacrificing them can net you

1)Upgrade the second elite suit like the first (I stand by the Helios build, they've never let me down when killing Meq/Teq/Vehicles) - 14 pts
2)Shield drones on the two Elite suits - 60 pts
3)Shield drones on an newly appointed team leader XV88 - 35 pts

Which leaves 13 pts to play with. (I'd probably go with a HWBSF for the Team leader in squad one and another FW in the second squad for the points).

Quote:
Further questions: Do we really expect the burst cannons to be that effective against Space Marine armor? Would it be worth sacrificing a squad of drones to give the second crisis suit a better weapon, or to give the Ionhead the missile system instead of the BCs? I'm just not sure how good they are going to be if their strength is not that much higher than the marine's toughness and the AP is negligible. Also, sacrificing a drone squad might mean adding more fire warriors to their squads...
Burst cannons are cheap and can out put a great amount of firepower when needed. At AP 5, most of our weapons rely on weight of fire to finally push through the armor. I do like the idea of the upgraded XV though and Stealths never cut it for me.

SMS's can't be fired if the Ion fires. Str 5 is main weapon strength to GW now-a-days. Only the Gun drones will be able to move and fire and they are not only more expensive, but potentially an easily dealt with Kill point.
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