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Ideas Tau vs. Orks?
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Old 23 Feb 2009, 15:37   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Ideas Tau vs. Orks?

Hello,

I am build a Tau army to play with my friend who predominantly plays Orks. I was wondering what I should be doing to prepare to play against him?

I need both input on models and tactics. What I have been told so far is that I should keep extremely mobile, stay far away, and use a lot of missiles. I was wondering, does that mean I should invest in a skyray? Should I use a lot of deathrain suits? Should I use flame throwers? Should my hammersheads use SMS, or Burst Cannons? What are my options here?

P.S. Just because I am anal, I don't want to use "non-tau" units, i.e. vespids, and kroot.

Thank you.
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Old 23 Feb 2009, 15:49   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Ideas Tau vs. Orks?

Do you know what type of Ork army you will be facing?

Foot slogging list, Shooting list, battlewaggon list, Nob bikers list?
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Old 23 Feb 2009, 15:53   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Ideas Tau vs. Orks?

Get Flamersuits and Piranhas to screen them.
Run towards big Ork Horde.
????
Profit!
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Old 23 Feb 2009, 16:05   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Ideas Tau vs. Orks?

Being a Tau-gone-Ork player myself, I can safely vouch for the Hammerhead. Orks have big problems dealing with AV 13+ units from a distance, and a Hammerhead with Railgun can deal both with pesky footsloggers and Battlewagons (just keep a few Markers handy to increase the chance to hit and reduce those pesky KFF-cover saves). Just stay out of Choppa range, and when shooting down transports (especially Trukks) make sure you have some Crisis nearby who can deal with the passengers - nothing more depressing than a destroyed Trukk careening into your lines, disgoring a squad of Sluggas, and no weapons left to down them...

Also a "must" are Deathrains - TL MPs are ideal to make short work of Buggies, Trukks and Nobs with Eavy Armour.
Depending on your opponent, TL PR or PR and FB equipped Crisis could also be useful, but only if the Ork army is packing Meganobs and/or FnP-Nobs, and if you have means to negate cover saves (read: Markerlights).

Generally speaking, the new Orks are dead fast and dead killy - meaning, they kill you dead faster than you can mutter "Greater Good!". A Trukk Mob can in two turns assault over a distance of 38" - 18" all-out movement in turn one, 12" in turn 2, 2" disembark, 6" charge - and this isn't even taking in account "Red Paint" and/or the "Waaaagh!"-move - so be careful!

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 23 Feb 2009, 20:43   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Ideas Tau vs. Orks?

You need to control principal phases the movement and shooting, i recomended you equip your fire warriors with a fish of fury and fletch discharger to get a great mobility and 7 shots with ap5 against orks is very effective, and get some stealth suits to outflank the enemy, and some crisis with tl flamers and burst cannon, and one shas'el with airburst and flamer, yes, you need to be too close but if aunva is on your side all be allright. and take some pathfinders to get out cover saves. and if you think necesary one or two hammerheads with railgun
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 04:24   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Ideas Tau vs. Orks?

Actually, getting a target lock and TL flamers is better IMO, especially if you decide to DS your suits right into the center of 3 separate mobs. Spread out and flame them all.
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 05:47   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Ideas Tau vs. Orks?

MajicJuggler are you trying to create opponents that your orks are going to slaughter??? Three crisis suits with a target lock each and TL flamer runs for 108pts. Now this set requires you to be able to deepstrike under 8", flamer range. Couple that with the fact that if you land within an 1" of your enemy, off the table, unable to deploy any of your unit or into imassible terrian and you now just had a deepstrike mishap and it spells disaster.

Lets say though you pull it off; what kind of damage are they going to do. Lets pit them up against one unit of 30 orks, which is a typical size, and they cost 220pts (Nob with Bosspole and Power Klaw). So you fire the flamers and can get 8 under each one for a total of 24. That means they will wound 12 of them, and another 6 once you do your rerolls for being TL. Total wounded orks is 18 which means 18 dead orks due to the Ap and no cover saves being allowed. In the end you killed off 108pts worth of orks which means you made the points back on the crisis suits. However there are still 12 orks remaining which means they are still fearless and will not be running dispite the loses. One of those Orks is the Nob with the Power Klaw so don;t even think you are going to win close cbt since that power klaw will instant kill each of those Crisis suits. But where are you going to get your crisis suits to stop the orks from assualting you? Not very far especially if you landed under 6" from the Orks. This squad is essentially a sucided squad or mop up squad on its own. They need to work with other units inorder to be effective and to stay alive. As for the Targets locks and firing on three seperate squads good luck with that cause that means on average its only 8 dead orks from each squad and they one of the three is going to smash them.

As for units that actually work well against orks well I;m afraid the best unit out there is the Kroot. When you crunch the numbers for equally amount of points on Kroot vs Orks which ever squad charges the other (in the open) will come out on top. Kroot in cover however come out on top regardless of who charges since 99% of ork players don;t take stickbombs in any form. Now add in kroot hounds and the odds are tipped in the favor of the kroot even more cause they will always get to strike first. The best part is that kroot can also shoot at the orks and also infiltrate/outflank. They are cheaper than firewarriors and are also troops which means scoring units.
Kroot aside though I would go with stealth suits since any ork units shooting over 21 inches will likely not be able to see them due to the stealth field. They have the ability to kill orks in droves with their burst cannons and this isn;t even the best part yet. The best part is that they can outflank which allows you to easily slide in and negate their cover. Add in two marker drones and you can reduce their cover save to a 6+ if you want. Hands down these guys are worth ever point. I would also seriously consider giving each of them a drone controller and two gun drones. Three gun drones cost the same as one stealth suit and will on average hit more due to their Twin Linked status. The bonus is that any non fearless ork squads will have to take a pinning check. Makerlights once again can come in handy for reducing their odds of passing the pinning check. A side not Bosspoles don;t work on Pinning test since they are for Leadership test only. Pinning is not a leadership test but is its own beast.
Crisis suits with Burst cannons and missile pods are both great. The missile have the range and punch to take out their trukks will the burst have the punch and rate of fire to drop orks in numbers. Once again I would add some gun drones into these units to help add to the kill count when firing at the 18inch range. The drones also provide and extra wound.
Flecette dischagers are worth ever penny, so are disruption pods and multi trackers can also be handy. If your vehicle keep moving more than 6" the orks will need 6's to hit it. This will reduce their chances of effecting your vehicle greatly. Now the flecette discarger punishes the ork for assualt your vehicle and should make his smaller squads think twice about doing so. The multi tracker will still allow your vehicle to fire its burst cannon even if you move more than 6" which can come in handy. The disruption pods give your vehicles a cover save as along as the unit firing at it is more than 12" away.
Broadside now are still an effective unit for when the orks are fielding battlewagons, deffdreads and walker. The first two cannot be effected by the majority of wpns that tau bring to the table but not for a broadside. They are also effective against trukks and infantry. Don't leave home with one...or two.
HammerHeads will be a thorn in an orks side since Orks have no viable weapons over str 8. However if they get the chance to assualt one, especially a static one you can bet they will since their attacks are against their rear armour. Till then though the hammerhead will smash anything it points its barrel at.
Noteable Ork units to fear are Ork Nob Bikers and deffkoptas. A nob biker unit can take on the majority of your army and now even lose a Nob let alone a wound. While deffkoptas will outflank and take pot shots at your vehicles rear armour and or shots at your smaller units, like sniper drone teams, pathfinders or firewarriors not in the open. The other thing they can do is turbo boost towards you and try to make you throw a huge amount of firepower at them since they can get a 3+ cover save. The worst part for the deffkopta is their scout move allows them to turbo boost into position pre game for a turn 1 strike.
Overall all of your weapons can effect a trukk and kill orks in droves as long as your units can avoid close combat. If you work as a collective army you can win with ease. His army however is faster than yours and can easily out manouvre you if he is mechanized. The worst part about orks is that he can out range your shooting if he wants to and can field a ton of str 8 weapons to drop your vehicles and instant kill crisis suits/broadsides. Once again have your units work together and keep your distance at all costs unless you are positive that you can handle what is there.
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 06:29   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Ideas Tau vs. Orks?

8 is an ok average I suppose. However, the large mobs are meant for hammerheads/tankshocking (as the large boyz mobs lack the raw anti-tank dakka needed to be a serious threat, and save for a single Power Klaw which will autohit, chances are your opponent will not want to risk looking his nob to Death or Glory), for moving them to the side will create a clump that makes flamers even more attractive than normal (as with the right push, you can bunch up the Orks in such a manner where you can get upwards of 15 models in a template if you're really lucky. Partials are your friend). As for the deployment, you have your rerollable scatter assuming you still have the Command Devilfish lurking about.

However, where Crisis Suits really excel is in taking out those specialist units that an Ork player will field. Take Lootas for example. They are the popular dakka-dealer in many an Ork army due to their strength and decent rate of fire. However, they're expensive, fragile, and die to a lot of things. Most players worth their salt deploy them in cover. Needless to say, torching them out is imperative. Killing 150 pts of Lootas and running them off the battlefield earns your points back.
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 06:42   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Ideas Tau vs. Orks?

That is right I took an average number to look at it from the most possible situtation. As for tank shocking units of orks into clumps, that is harder than it sounds. The ork player simple just has to move any of his models that would end up underneath the Tanks final position via the shortest route distance and 1" from the vehicle. The ork player doesn't have to clump his mob nor does he nessissarly have to move them towards the crisis suits. Tank Shocking to move units where you want them to be is actaully harder than it sounds and more often than not acheives nothing but a minor shift.
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Old 24 Feb 2009, 07:08   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Ideas Tau vs. Orks?

Thats why the tankshocker should place his tankshock in the right area in order to clump...
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