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Feeding frenzy now not as effective?
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Old 20 Feb 2009, 16:21   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Essex, England
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Default Feeding frenzy now not as effective?

I can't remember where I found this, but:

"Version 1 - The first version has been around for a while and doesn’t
require piranhas to pull it off. However, a piranha’s speed allows them to
excel at this tactic. The way it works is simple: First, surround an enemy
transport in such a way that there is no legal place for transported models
to disembark. Second, use the Fusion Blasters on your piranhas (or railguns,
missile pods, whatever…) to blow up the enemy transport. Since the units
inside have no legal place within 2” of the exit points to disembark to,
they are destroyed. Try this against a landraider filled with terminators
and watch your opponents jaw hit the floor.

Version 2 – This version incorporates either a Hammerhead or Devilfish.
First, surround an enemy infantry unit with the piranha in such a way as to
negate the ability of the enemy unit to move between them (1" rule). Make
sure to leave a gap where the Hammerhead or Fish can fit through to get at
the enemy. The resulting formation of piranhas should resemble a U. Now
simply tank shock into the gap with the hammerhead/fish. Whether he passes
his leadership test or not, he still has nowhere to move without breaking
the 1" rule, therefore he is destroyed outright via the "No Retreat" rule.
His only hope is a successful death or glory. This version has some
controversy surrounding it so use it at your own risk(your opponent may cry cheese)."

Now, may mate seems to think that version 1 still allows the embarked unit to make an emergency disembark.

Also, he seems to think that Version 2 is not very effective either.

Is he right?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 20 Feb 2009, 17:49   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Feeding frenzy now not as effective?

Unfortunately, your friend is incorrect.

I have used the second version recently. Tank shock still works rather well.
If you can not fallback, when forced too, you lose the unit. The no retreat rule does not apply to Tank treads running over your skull.

The first version is also effective still IIRC. They didn't change the rules for disembarking. You need to be able to get out within 2 inches of the transport, but can not violate the 1 inch rule.


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So what you are saying is that your Ground Cadre has lots of Air Support?

No. What I am saying is that my Air Support has lots of Ground Cadre.

If a Land Raider dies to a rail gun, and no one was around to see it, does the kill point still exist?
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Old 20 Feb 2009, 17:54   #3 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Feeding frenzy now not as effective?

Neither of them really works very well. The first one requires you to block the entire vehicle now, not just the exit points. Although it is still worth blocking the exit points to force Emergency Disembarkation rather than normal Disembarkation.

Version 2 only works if the unit fails its leadership test. The Grand Tournament FAQ and repeated calls to GW confirmed this. From the tournament FAQ, if it passes the test but can not be moved out of the way, the vehicle stops 1" in front of it. You can not use Tank Shock to remove a unit. They have to fail the leadership test and be destroyed by having nowhere to run as with any broken unit. But when the vehicle actually moves, they have to be moved out of the way by the shortest distance that will put them in a legal position. This can actually drop them behind the tank, as this space will always be clear. It can still work against units with lower leadership, but it is not at automatic kill.
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Old 20 Feb 2009, 21:13   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Feeding frenzy now not as effective?

Hmm.... interesting.

The Fifth Edition states that if they pass the morale test, they just kind of let the tank pass through, as if the tank wasn't there, allowing the tank to continue through and tank shock other units if it has the movement.

However, the last paragraph states that if the tank ends it's movement on top of enemy models, these models must move, no mention of them passing tests or not. Which, IMHO leads to why Death and Glory can be so important when you are confronted with a no retreat tank shock. The tank player risks his precious tank. The Infantry player risks his infantry team to one attempt to stop the tank.

I got to see the the Tourney FAQ. Anyone have a link? I really need to solve this one in my own mind since I get ran over by Land Raiders. It would suck if I was throwing my fire warrior teams under the tracks myself. (Ok, so maybe I'd do it anyway. >)
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So what you are saying is that your Ground Cadre has lots of Air Support?

No. What I am saying is that my Air Support has lots of Ground Cadre.

If a Land Raider dies to a rail gun, and no one was around to see it, does the kill point still exist?
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Old 20 Feb 2009, 21:49   #5 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Feeding frenzy now not as effective?

If it passes the test, you have to move models underneath the vehicle's final location out of the way by the shortest legal distance. That means you can actually move them quite a long distance if there are other units and impassable terrain in the area. There is always going to be somewhere to move them to, though, even if that means they end up behind the tank-shocking vehicle. The hard part is that you also need to maintain coherency. But nowhere in the rules is there anything to suggest that the models could be removed this way. There is no way to destroy a unit with a tank-shock unless they fail their Leadership test.
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Old 21 Feb 2009, 14:31   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Feeding frenzy now not as effective?

Thanks for clearing that up.

R.e. version 1 - I guess that I could block the whole of the vehicle using 3 piranhas, as they have drones that could detach, right?
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Old 21 Feb 2009, 19:05   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Feeding frenzy now not as effective?

Maybe not a land raider, but I think that should be okay Turok
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Old 22 Feb 2009, 13:38   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Feeding frenzy now not as effective?

Awesome >
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