Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Skyray vs Pathfinders
Reply
Old 09 Feb 2009, 20:12   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sayville, NY
Posts: 722
Send a message via AIM to xShaperx
Default Skyray vs Pathfinders

I'm a fan of Pathfinders. I like the models, I like the Devilfish transport, I like the scout rule. I don't like the BS 3. Especially when the fate of my army hangs on getting 2-3 markerlight hits on a threat.

Most often my Pathfinder squads are 5 strong with no rail rifles, accompanied by a Devilfish with Disruption pods. This all comes out to 160pts after giving them a squad leader and bonding them. I'm hesitant though, to add a second squad like it. I enjoy the idea of a Skyray moving 12" and firing off both Markerlights at BS 4 (which is possible after upgrading a little bit). Not to mention that Tanks are much more solid in 5th and it won't be wiped out turn one by a Whirlwind.

The Pathfinder Squad has pros and cons when compared to a Skyray. Pros: It has the chance to hit with more markerlights than the Skyray can hope to. You get a Transport which your Firewarriors or Kroot can hijack and use to take an objective swiftly. Also, Marker Beacon on the Devilfish for free helps Deepstriking suits land on target.
Cons: They're extremely vulnerable to fire. They have a low Ballistic Skill for such a clutch unit. They're more expensive than the Skyray.

I don't plan on phasing out all my Pathfinders, I spent a lot of time and effort making their squad and transport look great. I'm wondering instead of having my second Pathfinder squad, replacing them with the faster, sturdier Skyray.

Thoughts?
__________________
I love the smell of promethium in the morning

Shas'ui Kel'shan Mont'au Mal'caor: The Terror Spider of Kel'shan

www.myspace.com/nathanhotdog
xShaperx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 Feb 2009, 20:29   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,182
Send a message via AIM to Jedibean
Default Re: Skyray vs Pathfinders

I dont have too much advice on the subject however I must admit that since our enemies are now faster in 5th edition I find my pathfinders getting caught over and over again. I'm thinking about taking a skyray instead just to see if it can't be more survivable than the pathfinders. Especially considering that they move 12" fire all weapons have armor 13 and 2 BS4 marker lights it can be useful. Also considering that hammerheads are now second fiddle to broadsides in terms of anti-tank fire power. I'm thinkin' about replacing my hammerheads AND pathfinders with broadsides and skyrays. I'll tell you how it turns out I guess... but you've got me thinkin'....
Jedibean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 Feb 2009, 21:26   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,958
Default Re: Skyray vs Pathfinders

Why not have one of each? I usually do, and they work well together. The extra markerlights from the pathfinders add quite a bit to the first round barrage of seeker missiles from the skyray, and the skyray can handle markerlight duties later in the game when the pathfinders are dead.
knightperson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 Feb 2009, 21:47   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth, i think...
Posts: 275
Send a message via AIM to runer60000
Default Re: Skyray vs Pathfinders

your theory is good, but it's easy to argue against it, which i happily will! 8)

First off, more markerlights makes up for what is only a 1BS difference. 8 pathfinders will score 4 hits on average, and the sky ray will either hit only 1 or 2, if any. And dont forget the fish is a tank. im starting to think you dont even read your own codex, which is incredibly sad. :'(

Second, pathfinders are just better. you can slap on 2 seeker missiles for extra firepower, and also if you dont need markerlights, you have some good old pinning carbines. Also, the shas'ui pack comes with a shield drone so they can last much longer than you think if you use common sense(and the actual drone). And the marker beacon can be the difference between not only life and death for your deep strikers, but also a free point for your opponent if your playing annihilation.

Third, pathfinders are more flexible. once again, the pathfinders have carbines, so they can add lethal firepower. Plus, add some EMP grenades, and you got tankhunters.

Finally, the sky simply cannot defend itself. You either use the secondary weapons on the front of it, or just run. Pathfinders have more options. not only do you have the same options for secondary weapons systems on the fish, you have, once again, carbines. or, you can blast the enemy squad with markerlights and a seeker missile and let the rest of your army obliterate them. and, if the pathfinders come under fire, u have a nice safe tank transport to be in.

The sky ray might be a few less points, but with pathfinders you have a stronger, more flexible unit in almost every way.
__________________
Current Tau Standings:
Against Blood Angels SM: L0, T1, W3
Against Chaos: L2, T1, W0
Against Tyranids: L2, T1, W0
Against Necrons: L1, T1, W2
Orks: L0, T1, W0
Current Eldar Standings:
Against Blood Angels: L0, T0, W0
Against Orks: L0, T0, W0
Against Tyranids: L0, T0, W2
Against Ultramarines: L0, T0, W3
runer60000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 Feb 2009, 22:51   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sayville, NY
Posts: 722
Send a message via AIM to xShaperx
Default Re: Skyray vs Pathfinders

Thanks for the feedback :] Your arguement is solid, and makes me respect my little Shas'la a bit more.

The only thing I can see the Skyray being useful for, really useful for, is the 12" move with 2 markerlights going out. My Pathfinders often find themselves manuvered around, their LOS blocked, or priority targets hidden from them. The Skyray would make it so there is no safe place to hide a tank or a dangerous squad.

I'm going to try both an 8 man Pathfinder squad (expensive, and a tasty target) and the Skyray+upgrades (less markerlights, more manuvereable).

Thanks!!

__________________
I love the smell of promethium in the morning

Shas'ui Kel'shan Mont'au Mal'caor: The Terror Spider of Kel'shan

www.myspace.com/nathanhotdog
xShaperx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 Feb 2009, 03:32   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,182
Send a message via AIM to Jedibean
Default Re: Skyray vs Pathfinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by runer60000
your theory is good, but it's easy to argue against it, which i happily will! 8)

First off, more markerlights makes up for what is only a 1BS difference. 8 pathfinders will score 4 hits on average, and the sky ray will either hit only 1 or 2, if any. And dont forget the fish is a tank. im starting to think you dont even read your own codex, which is incredibly sad. :'(

Second, pathfinders are just better. you can slap on 2 seeker missiles for extra firepower, and also if you dont need markerlights, you have some good old pinning carbines. Also, the shas'ui pack comes with a shield drone so they can last much longer than you think if you use common sense(and the actual drone). And the marker beacon can be the difference between not only life and death for your deep strikers, but also a free point for your opponent if your playing annihilation.

Third, pathfinders are more flexible. once again, the pathfinders have carbines, so they can add lethal firepower. Plus, add some EMP grenades, and you got tankhunters.

Finally, the sky simply cannot defend itself. You either use the secondary weapons on the front of it, or just run. Pathfinders have more options. not only do you have the same options for secondary weapons systems on the fish, you have, once again, carbines. or, you can blast the enemy squad with markerlights and a seeker missile and let the rest of your army obliterate them. and, if the pathfinders come under fire, u have a nice safe tank transport to be in.

The sky ray might be a few less points, but with pathfinders you have a stronger, more flexible unit in almost every way.
I'm going to go ahead and argue with you on some of these points. In terms of overall flexibility the Skyray has the pathfinder squad beat. If you're talking about putting seekers on the pathfinder devilfish and saying that it's better that's just not true. The skyray has 6 seekers as opposed to 2. Similarly, the skyray is a better anti-tank vehicle than pathinders with EMP grenades could ever hope to be. Keeping in mind that pathfinders have to assault the vehicle with EMP grenades to be able to take it out. The skyray can hit an enemy vehicle with 2 strength 8 AP3 hits from 36" away or even further if you've got another source of markerlights on the table. If you've got your pathfinders in assault range with just about anything then they're probably already dead.

From a survivability standpoint you've got to be kidding if you think a skyray is going to be less survivable than a squad of pathfinders with a shield drone or 2. The drones just make the squad more expensive and just puts 2 more wounds in the squad. Generally speaking if you're going to lose pathfinders then it's usually to massed fire or to an assault. 2 shield drones will protect you from neither. With wound allocation you're much more likely to lose pathfinders than shield drones. On the other hand the skyray is an armor 13 12 10 skimmer that gets a 4+ cover save against any shooting that comes from outside of 12". Most weapons cant even hurt it and if you wanna assault it then you're going to have to catch it first. In the process the unit chasing down the skyray is going to have to whether GOD knows how much shooting from the rest of the Tau army.

I've never thought seriously about using the skyray but now that I've had a relatively positive experience with ninja Tau tactics I've had a change of heart.
Jedibean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 Feb 2009, 11:10   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,958
Default Re: Skyray vs Pathfinders

A skyray with blacksun filter is particularly useful in Dawn of War deployments. Remember, markerlights can be used to auto-pass night-fighting checks. The skyray can fire markerlights almost to the far side of the board, and with a BSF it won't fail the night-fight check very often. You can then use the 1 or 2 markerlight counters from the skyray to make sure some of the big guns can see their target. Broadsides, a hammerhead, or a deathrain squad can be almost guaranteed that first shot when they enter the board. I use this trick in most of my battles, and it's VERY effective against most armies.
knightperson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 Feb 2009, 15:55   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,182
Send a message via AIM to Jedibean
Default Re: Skyray vs Pathfinders

And it's actually something that Pathfinder CANT do. Even if you decide to deploy them in turn 1 of a dawn of war mission type they have to move onto the table either on foot or in their devilfish. This means they wont be firing those heavy weapons of theirs. On the otherhand, the Skryray has no such limitation. So there's another check in the skyray flexibility column.
Jedibean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 Feb 2009, 03:49   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth, i think...
Posts: 275
Send a message via AIM to runer60000
Default Re: Skyray vs Pathfinders

i know what you mean about having 6 seeker missiles opposed to 2, but when would you use 6 in any game under 2,000 points when you can easily fit 3 broadsides and a hammerhead into a list of that size.

Besides, the codex says that a vehicle with seeker missiles can fire 2 at max, both at DIFFERENT TARGETS. so you can have 2 devilfish with 2 seeker missiles and then put 2 of those puppies on 2 vehicles, much better than 2 at different targets, and with only S8, you just wasted 125 points on a near useless free kill point possibility for your enemy with only 2 S8 shots per turn. krootox can do better than that hands down! with their numbers, they dont even need markerlights, thats y they cant even use them in the first place! i mean, they could have given the shaper some type of light helmet that helps his squad hit the markerlight targets(similar to vespid), but no. > > >
__________________
Current Tau Standings:
Against Blood Angels SM: L0, T1, W3
Against Chaos: L2, T1, W0
Against Tyranids: L2, T1, W0
Against Necrons: L1, T1, W2
Orks: L0, T1, W0
Current Eldar Standings:
Against Blood Angels: L0, T0, W0
Against Orks: L0, T0, W0
Against Tyranids: L0, T0, W2
Against Ultramarines: L0, T0, W3
runer60000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 Feb 2009, 04:57   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,182
Send a message via AIM to Jedibean
Default Re: Skyray vs Pathfinders

Runer, we're comparing the skyray to the pathfinders for the sake of their marker lights, not for the sake of their anti-tank capabilities as compared to a hammerhead of broadsides. Obviously a hammerhead or a team of 3 broadsides is going to be a superior anti-tank weapon. However, you're incorrect about only 2 seekers being able to be fired from a single vehicle. You can fire any number of seekers from a vehicle it's just that vehicle can now only carry 2 seekers per vehicle. The skyray can potentially launch all 6 seeker misssiles in a single turn as long as there are sufficient markerlight hits to launch them.

Anyway, a krootox will not perform a similar anti-tank roll to the skyray. It's a 48" range rapid fire weapon. Everytime you move your range on that strength 7 gun is reduced to 12" range. So you could leave them static which could be good if you leave them in wooded terrain. But that would leave them vulnerable to something deepstriking with a flamer. Or heck, even a hellhound would take them out from farther than they'd be able to respond.

I've never been the biggest fan of the skyray, but I think that you're severely underestimating it to call it useless. And it's a hard as nails kill point. It's just as tough to take out a skyray as it is a hammerhead. Outside of 12" it's tough as hell to do...
Jedibean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why buy a skyray? fiercegoldfish Tau 28 16 Aug 2008 05:59
skyray or not?? lord von braken Tau 2 07 Oct 2007 06:47
Need some help with a skyray. InsanitysFall Tau 0 30 May 2007 05:02
The Skyray box nulvior General 40K 10 13 Aug 2006 06:28
Can anyone tell me what is in the skyray box? budro Tau 1 02 Jun 2006 20:49