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Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 02:59   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers

Alright so Nob Bikers have been discussed on these forums a few weeks ago, but search is down and of course there's thread necromancy blah blah blah.

So far my by the book tactics of Railheads, Helios suits and Broadsides have either ended in a close draw at best or a complete disaster against Nob biker armies. It's time to think outside the box.

So, the skyray! Or more generally, seeker missile spam. A single Skyray can statistically kill ~2 Nob bikers, which puts them about even at a point for point cost. They're safer than Helios suits, more maneuverable than Broadsides, a good deal cheaper than a Railhead and they can kill a good chunk of the enemy in a single volley...in theory.

Thoughts?
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 03:07   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers

Well, I like seeker missiles, need no LOS and are my idea of artillery for Tau and we need more like that. The seeker missiles from a skyray would be deadly to rain down on any opponent and equipping them on fish and/or hammerheads could prove to be effective as well (though truth be told, i have equipped them because i had extra points and forgot about them :-\)

Seems to be a good idea, and at the end of this month I am facing an ork player with some bikers. It's definitely an idea that intrigues me and i will be trying it then. Will let you know how it goes.
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 03:12   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers

it's interesting. although i couldnt imagine taking up a heavy slot for one when you have hammerheads which seem like a must against horde armies. unless your talking about straight nob biker armies then i can see the potential. you could also use the seeker missiles to take them out as well, and with such a limited amount of models you wont have to worry about running out of missiles!
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 03:25   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers

I disagree.

Make sure you use a lot of markerlights, and reduce the 4+ cover save to a 5+, otherwise you will waste most of the seekers. (2 out of 3 will still be lost to feel no pain and the invulnerable save.) Factor in the limited ammo of a skyray, and you will most likely still not make back your points.

I think the best way is to use a few small sacrifical units, (gun drone squads may work here, but kroot may be better) and fusion blaster armed crisis/stealth suits.

JSJ into range, then put the sacrifical unit between your suits and the bikes, compact enough to keep the bikes from going in between the models, but too spread out to let the bikes go around. Let the bikers destroy the squad, (keeping your suits out of melee,) then JSJ again. once you have killed a few, open up with carbines / Rail rifles. Remember, Orks are rather low leadership, and so can be pinned if you reduce the squad size to 7-8 models or less first.

I believe markerlights are better used for keeping the Bikers pinned than launching seekers, as the orks will still get a 5+ 4+ save vs. the missiles. (they only get a 4+ vs. fusion guns, and markerlights can lower that to 5+.)

Thoughts?
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 04:17   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers

I Find this to be a very pleasing tactic, and can Work Really, really well if you have enough Markerlights. Oh, and Make Sure that you remember that Since the Seekers Cause Instant Death, (Str 8 on a T 4(5) unit) They Negate Feel no Pain.

You see, all the Seeker Missiles From the Skyray come from the Same unit. This means that you can use other markerlights to benefit the unit's (the Skyray's) Shooting. Normally The Seekers Ignore all cover except Area Terrain, (since they don't use LoS) but the Ork warbikes have the Smog Cloud Special Rule, so they always get a 4+ Cover. But Not To Worry! You can use your markerlights to negate their cover, since all the Missiles coming from the Skyray is just one unit shooting: The Skyray.

If you can back up the Skyray with pathfinders, Stealth Teams, or even fire Warriors with Markerlights, then this could be very Devastating to the Nob Bikers. I'll use my Army as an Example. in My Army, I have 12 Pathfinders, the Skyray, and 2 Stealth Suits with Markerlights. The Skyray and Stealth Suits have Targeting arrays, so they have BS4 (Yay!) Chances are, Those Nob Biers are going to be Turbo-Boosting towards me. And I want them Dead. So I'm Going to Focus Fire on them. This is how It'll turn out statistically:

12 Markerlights from the Pathfinders, 6 hit.
4 BS 4 Markerlights, about 3 hit. (Rounded up from 2.666)

So I've got 9 Markerlights on them. They've Turbo Boosted, so They have a 3+ cover. Chances are that they have Cybork Bodies too, So I'm gonna Use 2 of my Tokens to Drop Their Cover to a 5+, to match their 5+ Invul from the Cybork. This Leaves me with 7 Tokens, so I can Fire all 6 Missiles!

6 Missiles, 5 Hits, 4.16 wounds. At a 5+, 2.77 will Fail. You Just Killed 2~3 Bikers! And if you're lucky enough for them to not invest in Cybork Bodies, then The Death Toll Rises. (Up to 3.47)


Is it Worth it? I'd say so, especially if you consider that It negates Negates both Armor and Feel no pain, and then in Addition Causes Instant Death. That's anywhere from 4 to 8 Wounds, that can't be spread around all the bikers like they love to so much. When Compared to how Hard it is to Wound Nob Bikers using Conventional Means, Seekers are a dream. The same 2 Wounds that you could get with 1 seeker would cost you 24 (unaided) Fire Warrior Shots.

If anything, you'll need to Drop Those Bikers Fast, and this is exactly what this does. You can Fire off 2 Missiles from a different vehicles That ignore the 4+ smog Clouds, but since those are different units, Those 2 Missiles will cost you 5 Markerlights, instead of the 6 for 10 trick you can pull of with the Skyray. The Yield will be significantly smaller, and You may Want to use those Lights to support the Rest of your army instead of just firing off 2 missiles. That's why the Skyray is perfect for this, since It can fire off all 6 in one go.

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Old 16 Jan 2009, 04:37   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers

You are correct. I forgot the instant death part of FnP.

That does make skyrays one of the best ways to fight Nob Bikers.

Lots of seekers on 2-3 devilfish would also work, but as Wyvern points out, you'd have to use more markerlights.

That said, you would free up your heavy support slots, and it would save some points, so either way would work, depending on the number of marker lights in your force.

Great find Moofassa, and thank you for the correction Wyvern! Both of you keep up the great work!
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 04:49   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers

Yeah, Moofasa you're absolutely correct. I've rolled this out on several occasions and seekers w/ marker light spam are the best way to deal with nob bikers statistically. It's the most shots and it ignores feel no pain. If you use Markers it can ignore the cover save that Nob Bikers get.

2 Squads of pathfinders, 2 or 3 skyrays and put seekers on every vehicle that can take them. That's the best way to deal with Nob Bikers. It's not good... but it's the best shot we've got statistically.

The obvious problem is that in a tourney setting who the hell else would this army work against?!
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 04:57   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers

And who says Tau don't have any Strength 8 weapons?~ Anywho, just remember to bring a Railgun to Instant-Kill the Warboss. For a normal Ork army (Nob Bikerz + 3/4 Mobs of Ork Boyz), people tend to take a Warboss + 5 Nob Bikerz. So, killing 2 might force a Leadership but there's a re-roll-able Ld 9 to worry about.

Of course, if your opponent so happens to bring a Warboss + 9/10 Nob Bikerz. You need to kill a third or fourth Nob. But that's where your Railgun comes in along with your Pathfinders and Sky Ray.

Quote:
If you use Markers it can ignore the cover save that Nob Bikers get.
Just lower it to a 5+ Cover Save. Remember they can have Cybork Bodies which confer a 5+ Inv Save.

Quote:
2 Squads of pathfinders, 2 or 3 skyrays and put seekers on every vehicle that can take them. That's the best way to deal with Nob Bikers. It's not good... but it's the best shot we've got statistically.
I think for practicality, just bring one 8-men Pathfinder Squad, 1 Sky Ray and 2 Hammerheads. On average, 4 Markerlights will hit. Use 1 to negate the cover to 5+, 2 to fire the Seeker Missiles and 1 to +1 to BS.
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 05:02   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibean
Yeah, Moofasa you're absolutely correct. I've rolled this out on several occasions and seekers w/ marker light spam are the best way to deal with nob bikers statistically. It's the most shots and it ignores feel no pain. If you use Markers it can ignore the cover save that Nob Bikers get.

2 Squads of pathfinders, 2 or 3 skyrays and put seekers on every vehicle that can take them. That's the best way to deal with Nob Bikers. It's not good... but it's the best shot we've got statistically.

The obvious problem is that in a tourney setting who the hell else would this army work against?!
It should be decent against anything but horde. The large number of markerlights mean you will be making effective use of your remaining fire, however little of it there is. Those large number of seekers will kill lots of marines and will certainly slow down anything that relies on rhino's or similar light transports. They will be effective against the middle tier of tyranid creatures (warriors, light carnifexes, genestealers, etc). With careful movement of the vehicles carrying the seekers you should be able to get side if not rear armor shots on large vehicles, so that's OK too. Necrons are impossible in general, but seekers will knock them down to stay if they don't have the rez orb nearby (which of course they will). Like I said, the only thing where you will be completely outclassed is the classic swarm of little guardsmen, gaunts, or lighter orcs. You will have to kill them with highly accurate pulse fire and kroot, and there might not be enough of that to go around.
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 05:03   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Skyrays Vs Nob Bikers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
And who says Tau don't have any Strength 8 weapons?~ Anywho, just remember to bring a Railgun to Instant-Kill the Warboss. For a normal Ork army (Nob Bikerz + 3/4 Mobs of Ork Boyz), people tend to take a Warboss + 5 Nob Bikerz. So, killing 2 might force a Leadership but there's a re-roll-able Ld 9 to worry about.

Of course, if your opponent so happens to bring a Warboss + 9/10 Nob Bikerz. You need to kill a third or fourth Nob. But that's where your Railgun comes in along with your Pathfinders and Sky Ray.

Quote:
If you use Markers it can ignore the cover save that Nob Bikers get.
Just lower it to a 5+ Cover Save. Remember they can have Cybork Bodies which confer a 5+ Inv Save.

Quote:
2 Squads of pathfinders, 2 or 3 skyrays and put seekers on every vehicle that can take them. That's the best way to deal with Nob Bikers. It's not good... but it's the best shot we've got statistically.
I think for practicality, just bring one 8-men Pathfinder Squad, 1 Sky Ray and 2 Hammerheads. On average, 4 Markerlights will hit. Use 1 to negate the cover to 5+, 2 to fire the Seeker Missiles and 1 to +1 to BS.
Dont forget that they'll probably turbo-boost in the first round of the game. That makes their cover save 3+. And you are correct. You only really need to decrease it to 5+ if they have cybork bodies. In any case, the reason I recommended 2 squads was to be able to launch as many missiles as humanly possible in order to negate their feel no pain and kill as many as you can in a round of shooting.
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