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Core rulebook rule questions for Tau
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 17:04   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Core rulebook rule questions for Tau

I have some questions regarding both general play of 40K with Tau, and how the rules apply. I’ve read the codex’ and have gone over the core rule book (but probably not in as great as detail as I should), and cannot find any answers; any and all comments would be greatly appreciated. Seems to me that the Tau have alot of unique choices, next only to the Eldar, but the rulebook seems to cover mainly the norm as far as armies go.

1. A devilfish deploys its drones; that unit, as a whole, is one vehicle, as it filled a vehicle slot. HOWEVER, when there is incoming fire to hit the vehicle, where does it strike? I say that, just like with fire warriors and battlesuits, the drone will intercept and take the damage, not the vehicle; this is how we did it, but I am just wondering if that was correct.

2. This involves cover saves: I have a squad of firewarriors with rifles deployed, with a devilfish 6 inches in front of the team. Twelve inches in front of the ‘fish is a squad of Necons. To the right of the ‘fish is a bridge, with roughly three inches away. Now, the bridge would offer cover to those models behind it, which were 5 Necrons, they were moving around the obstacle, and the firewarriors had a clear line of sight at the remaining 9, but from under the devilfish. My opponent felt that, as I was shooting through friendly units, he deserved a “cover save 4+ for unit (friends and enemies), or at the least, a cover save 4+ (for the bridge). I was arguing the fact that my firewarriors with rifles were shooting his troops, but from under the vehicle, so it would not offer and cover save, and that since the majority of his troops were not in cover, the unit as a whole cold not benefit from a cover save. On a side note, we used a laser level to determine how many troops could have been shot at… a lot easier then that silly pen light! What happens? We landed up giving the Necrons a 4+ save anyway, but again, is this correct?

3. I am certain that this is covered somewhere, but… when targeting a squad of vehicles, ie Piranha, does that differ from shooting into a squad of troops? What I mean is, with the other armies, whenever you have a squad of vehicles, they have saves and stats as a troop, so naturally they are treated as such, but with the Piranha, they are vehicles. So when allocating damage, does the opponent get to single out a target, or, as being a squad, to damage rolls happen as they would for troops?

4. This is neither here nor there, but my opponent and I were discussing this: with Tau having both photon and EMP grenades, and with Necrons being robotic in nature and in being, the logical choice would be to use EMP grenades against them. Photons only work against organics, because of the whole color spectrum and flash-bang effect, and EMPS are used against electrical / mechanical unit. So since Necrons are not organic, the clear choice would be to use EMPs. Granted, this rather sucks for game play, but it makes sense. Is there any clarification on this? Keep in mind that the EMPs have drastic effects on vehicles, and with the case of Necrons, Also keep in min the lack of Necron vehicles.
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 17:14   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Core rulebook rule questions for Tau

1. it hits the devilfish, treat the drones like passengers in an open topped vehicle
2. you git a cover save if your opponent shoots under a skimmer, so they would have gotten a 4+
3. no idea
4. grenades work like normal (throws off targeting in multiple spectrums or something) it would make sense to use EMPs vs. some opponents but you cant (termies wouldn't be able to move >)
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 17:19   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Core rulebook rule questions for Tau

True, I would get the cover save from the Necrons shooting under / through the Devilfish, but it is I who was shooting at them... thus, the confusion on my opponent's part. Or perhaps I am confused; I'm thinking of the FoF tactic, and if that still applies, or if that even works with the 'fish being that distance away.

ermm...

I should be getting an official answer, though... contacted the Games Workshop people with these questions.
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 17:25   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Core rulebook rule questions for Tau

if anyone shoots under a skimmer, the target gets a cover save
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 18:06   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Core rulebook rule questions for Tau

Whatever the shooters, Tau or necrons, the target gets a 4+ cover save I think.
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 18:26   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Core rulebook rule questions for Tau

Quote:
Originally Posted by steck_638
1. it hits the devilfish, treat the drones like passengers in an open topped vehicle
If the drones are deployed, they count as a seperate unit. Therefore, they cannot take shots for the 'fish, and also cannot reattach to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soothsayer
3. I am certain that this is covered somewhere, but… when targeting a squad of vehicles, ie Piranha, does that differ from shooting into a squad of troops? What I mean is, with the other armies, whenever you have a squad of vehicles, they have saves and stats as a troop, so naturally they are treated as such, but with the Piranha, they are vehicles. So when allocating damage, does the opponent get to single out a target, or, as being a squad, to damage rolls happen as they would for troops?
I treat vehicle squadrons the same in 5th ed as I did in 4th ed: the shooter chooses what to take off the vehicle (and in this case, which vehicle to take it away from).

:P
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 19:46   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Core rulebook rule questions for Tau

Quote:
Originally Posted by soothsayer
1. A devilfish deploys its drones; that unit, as a whole, is one vehicle, as it filled a vehicle slot. HOWEVER, when there is incoming fire to hit the vehicle, where does it strike? I say that, just like with fire warriors and battlesuits, the drone will intercept and take the damage, not the vehicle; this is how we did it, but I am just wondering if that was correct.
As has already been stated, as soon as the Drones are deployed, they form their own unit, and are moving separately from the Devilfish. Shots against the Fish are treated like shots against every other vehicle, and the Drones can never "take the shot" for the vehicle.
Quote:
2. This involves cover saves: I have a squad of firewarriors with rifles deployed, with a devilfish 6 inches in front of the team. Twelve inches in front of the ‘fish is a squad of Necons. To the right of the ‘fish is a bridge, with roughly three inches away. Now, the bridge would offer cover to those models behind it, which were 5 Necrons, they were moving around the obstacle, and the firewarriors had a clear line of sight at the remaining 9, but from under the devilfish. My opponent felt that, as I was shooting through friendly units, he deserved a “cover save 4+ for unit (friends and enemies), or at the least, a cover save 4+ (for the bridge). I was arguing the fact that my firewarriors with rifles were shooting his troops, but from under the vehicle, so it would not offer and cover save, and that since the majority of his troops were not in cover, the unit as a whole cold not benefit from a cover save. On a side note, we used a laser level to determine how many troops could have been shot at… a lot easier then that silly pen light! What happens? We landed up giving the Necrons a 4+ save anyway, but again, is this correct?
They WOULD gain a coversafe, since the Devilfish partly blocks LOS - unless, of course, you have a 4"plus high flying stand...
But, just for arguments sake - why should the Necrons worry about a COVER save against Pulse Rifles? They have a comfy 3+ armour save, and they probably will take the best save they have...
Quote:
3. I am certain that this is covered somewhere, but… when targeting a squad of vehicles, ie Piranha, does that differ from shooting into a squad of troops? What I mean is, with the other armies, whenever you have a squad of vehicles, they have saves and stats as a troop, so naturally they are treated as such, but with the Piranha, they are vehicles. So when allocating damage, does the opponent get to single out a target, or, as being a squad, to damage rolls happen as they would for troops?
This is treated in detail in the Rulebook in the Vehicles section under "Vehicle Squadrons" (or whatever it is called in English).
Quote:
4. This is neither here nor there, but my opponent and I were discussing this: with Tau having both photon and EMP grenades, and with Necrons being robotic in nature and in being, the logical choice would be to use EMP grenades against them. Photons only work against organics, because of the whole color spectrum and flash-bang effect, and EMPS are used against electrical / mechanical unit. So since Necrons are not organic, the clear choice would be to use EMPs. Granted, this rather sucks for game play, but it makes sense. Is there any clarification on this? Keep in mind that the EMPs have drastic effects on vehicles, and with the case of Necrons, Also keep in min the lack of Necron vehicles.
Necrons DO have a vehicle, the Monolith... But where to begin with this...
1) "Makes sense" doesn't come into it. We're playing a highly abstract game, and the rules often conflict with common sense - yet we have to deal with it for the sake of simplicity. I still remember 2nd Edition, where every army list had an annex of about ten pages, describing, in meticulous detail, how the various special rules interacted with each other - be glad that those times are over!

2) Wasted points: So you think you're waisting points by using EMPs against Necrons? What about Nids? They're completely useless than! But it is YOUR job to keep your army balanced, and able to handle every threat,not GWs. I mean, your Lascannons don't change into Heavy Bolters just because your opponent oesn't field any vehicles, as well, right?

3) Fluff explanation: I don't think Necrons have any internal electronics. They are just a metal body (pure metal) with the tiny rest of a soul in it - you can't short-circuit a thing like this. The Monolith, on the other hand has no such a thing as a "soul".

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 20:01   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Core rulebook rule questions for Tau

Quote:
Originally Posted by steck_638
if anyone shoots under a skimmer, the target gets a cover save
Presumably this is the same when using the Fish of Fury/Fire/whateveritscalled? The devilfish is just there to prevent the assault charge into cc, but both parties get the coversave option?
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 20:03   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Core rulebook rule questions for Tau

yep, its to represent the dust coud the fish would have or something like that
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 20:07   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Core rulebook rule questions for Tau

Quote:
Originally Posted by theScruff
Quote:
Originally Posted by steck_638
if anyone shoots under a skimmer, the target gets a cover save
Presumably this is the same when using the Fish of Fury/Fire/whateveritscalled? The devilfish is just there to prevent the assault charge into cc, but both parties get the coversave option?
Yes, but please note that the FWs actually have to SEE the opponent from the head level - so, unless you're usng a higher than normal flight stand, it just blocks LOS, like any normal vehicle.

Cheers,
-Bone
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