Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Fighting Necrons
Reply
Old 14 Nov 2008, 21:17   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 296
Send a message via AIM to LiinSivi Send a message via Yahoo to LiinSivi
Default Fighting Necrons

Hey guys, I need some help. I have an old friend who over the better part of a year has been using Necrons. I exclusively use Tau and we commonly field between 1500 and 2000 point armies. Out of the dozen or so games I've played against them I've managed to win once, and draw a couple times. Now he and I have been friends for years so the battles are rather lighthearted but I can't help but get a little frustrated with my inability to handle his army on even ground. I've heard mixed views on how Necrons are one of the Tau's hardest opponents (I believe them) and that 5th Ed has made them significantly less powerful.

My opponent on average fields in 2000 points:
1 Nightbringer (occasionally a Deceiver)
1 Veil/orb Lord or Destroyer Lord with orb
8 Immortals (which he is particularly fond of)
Between 20 and 60 Warriors (lately he's been leaning toward mined troops so 2 squads of 10)
6 Destroyers
3 Wraiths
1 Deep Striking Monolith
7 Flayed Ones (proxies currently)
And occasionally I'll see a few Scarab swarms but less as of late.

I also know that he has a bunch of used models coming in the mail consisting of 6 destroyers, 8 Flayed Ones, another Monolith, a number of Heavy Destroyers, a number of Wraiths and possibly a couple other odd things. Needless to say, If I'm having a rough time now, things aren't getting any better.

Currently I have:
1 Shadowsun
9 Crisis suits (including the HQ)
6 Stealths
36 Fire Warriors
8 Pathfinders (some with Rails)
2 Devilfish
2 Hammerheads
3 Broadsides
and enough gun and shield drones so everyone has a friend.

My latest list incarnation was as follows:
HQ
Shas'o w/Plasma, CIB, Shield Gen, HW Multi, Bonded, Stims
Shas'vre w/Plasma, Fusion, Array, HW Multi
Shas'vre W/Plasma, MP, Array, HW Multi

The whole squad is fairly well rounded, emphasized on heavy infantry killing but with the ability to take on light and heavy tanks.

Elite 1
Shas'ui Leader w/Plasma, Fusion, Array HW Multi and bonded
Shas'ui (2x) w/TL Plasma and Flamer

Once again relatively well rounded with emphasize on anti heavy infantry but with a minor ability to take on heavy tanks as well as small hords. Also, the basic Crisis are the cheapest you can field accurate Plasma without wasting a slot.

Elite 2
(See Elite 1)

Elite 3
Shas'ui Stealth Leader w/ Array and Bonded
Shas'ui (5x) w/Array

I've always had a soft spot for stealths and with the Arrays they still work pretty good against heavy infantry, however with regards to Necrons it's still an uphill battle. I usually Out Flank with them.

Troop 1
Shas'ui Leader Bonded
Shas'la (11x)
Devilfish w/D-pod and D-launchers

Full troop, cheap Devilfish just meant to stay alive, That's pretty much it.

Troop 2
(See Troop 1)

Troop 3
(See Troop 1)

Currently no Fast Attack. I want to use Pathfinders, but have used them with mixed results against Necrons and worry about the points being better used elsewhere. I welcome any suggestions.

Heavy Support 1
Broadside Leader w/Array, HW Multi HW DC and 1 Shield drone.

Almost completely immobile but very accurate. When that Monolith hits I want it dead yesterday before it starts pie plating my units into the ground or teleporting units up.

Heavy Support 2
(See Heavy Support 1)

Heavy Support 3
(See Heavy Support 1)

Currently I have the Broadsides Monat to make them harder to wipe out. Maybe take one out for a Hammerhead?

Suggestions and Comments please.
__________________
Imperial troops who fought in the Damocles Crusade described the signature of the barely visible markerlight beams as the Valkyrie's Mark, because those it chose were soon numbered among the dead

"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his" --George S. Patton
LiinSivi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Nov 2008, 01:09   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 344
Default Re: Fighting Necrons

The Hammer head would really help, but remember to use it at range cause of the dang Gauss rules. Your list looks pretty good, though I would try to focus it more against his army if thats all your playing. Your command squad looks like they are tying to do too much. Focus them with either fusion or plasma. The fusion is good because it negates the WBB roll iirc. Remember to focus your fire on 1 squad until they are atomized. You can pic out the lord now unless he hides in some warriors, so I'd pick on him first with the Broadsides. If you can take him out turn 1, then you can work on the monolith when it shows.

Remember to keep mobile!! the warriors only have a 12" range i believe so stay out of it until you are ready to wipe out that unit.

Good luck
__________________
For the Hero, there is no Death. For the Coward, there is no Life."
Quote:
Originally Posted by enderwiggin
you should know by now GW likes to do it backwards... "Mr. Tank driver, drive me closer so I can hit it with my sword!"
Hope. This is not a plan. This is not a solution. It is reaction.
Togashi Johnathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Nov 2008, 01:36   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Currently abord battlebarge terminus est.
Posts: 793
Default Re: Fighting Necrons

Necrons can be hard to beat but once you figure out thier flaws it becomes much easier.
I notice you list is fairly balanced leaning a bit to much on Suits though. The key to beating necrons, in my opinion is to never leave a unit stationary, for any more than 2 turns. Also, firewarriors have the best weapon in the game, use it...

To face his current army I'd feild something like this
HQ
-Shas,o Plasma, fusion, shield, stims, HW multi
-bodyguard plasma, fusion, multi tracker (deepstrike near firewarriors and provides support, other suits should probably do the same)

ELITES
5X stealth suits, fusion on teamleader with markerlight(annoy the **** out of your opponent by harrassing, small flanking units, wraiths for example)


TROOPS
-12Xfirewarriors, devilfish, disruption pod,2X seeker misiles (All firewarriors speed forward (on flank) and engage ASAP, prefrably necron models to cause phase out)
-12Xfirewarriors, devilfish, disruption pod,2X seeker misiles
-12Xfirewarriors, devilfish, disruption pod,2X seeker misiles

FAST ATTACK
4X pathfinders (steal devil fish from firewarriors, who embark 1st turn) (light up units, provide seeker barrage)
4X pathfinders, (steal devil fish from firewarriors, who embark 1st turn)

HEAVY SUPPORT
-Hammerhead, Railgun, burstcannons, multitracker, dirsruption pod (waits for monolith to show up..)
-Hammerhead, Railgun, burstcannons, multitracker, dirsruption pod (waits for monolith to show up..)
-Hammerhead, Ion Cannon, burstcannons, multitracker, dirsruption pod, 2x Seeker missiles (provides support for firewarriors)

Total:1647

I leave you with the other 350 points to play with, this army is what I normaly play, (with two more devilfish+firewarriors) high on vehicles.

My tactic against necrons focuses on their lack of mobility and my ability to kill anything that can move more than 6" first turn >. I start off with a massed barrage of missile fire that will wast distroyers, immortals, and anything else without an Inv. save. I drop submunitios on the warriors heads to provide cover for my devil fish and firewarriors, and trying to avoid C'tan (nightbringer). When I arrive in rapid fire range usually 3rd turn, I hope out and distroy any warriors on the board, guided by pathfinders.
I caused a phase out 2nd turn unsing this tactic, sure the player may have been a total noob, but I won first in that tournament, so don't nock it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Togashi Johnathan
Remember to keep mobile!! the warriors only have a 12" range i believe so stay out of it until you are ready to wipe out that unit.

Good luck
Yes, definantly!
__________________
"They shall be my finest Cannon Fodder, these men who give themselves to me. Like clay I will mold them and in the furnace of war they will become cracked and broken. They will be of tissue paper and whimpy muscle. In tissue paper armor I clad them and with the mightiest flashlights they will be armed. They will be touched by every sort of plauge or disease to help further make them unhappy, all sickness will blight them. They will have almost no tactics, strategies, but lots of machines so that they can atleast stand up to a foe in battle. They are my tar pit against the Terror. They are the bulk of Humanity. They are my Imperial Guard and they will know much fear!"

A fortress circumvented ceases to be an obstacle. A fortress destroyed ceases to be a threat. Do not forget the difference.
- Attributed to Leman Russ

My armies may sleep, but big guns never tire.


Surrender - or die.
Typhon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Nov 2008, 06:06   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Eastern Fringe
Posts: 1,685
Send a message via AIM to Colonel Marksman
Default Re: Fighting Necrons

I don't understand why people come, look at what a person has, and say, "no you need..." if they don't have or use those models, they don't. I don't see a third Hammerhead in that list. (I have 3, and I still find it difficult to fight Necrons!)

I bet he carry a Monolith often, which would tell me he's a very experienced Necron player, but from looking at the list and from personal experience, I can guess that his Immortals are paired with the Lord (though it doesn't matter who the Lord is with, that Res Orb is going to bring back the 'Crons from 100 Orbital Strikes.)

I've recently been doing an overhaul study of Tau markerlights, and I discovered that by giving markerlights to your Stealthsuits, (because they are relentless), they can now move and shoot the markerlights. In addition, Marker Drones (which you have none of, I know) can also prove their worth as they can move and bounce around with the Battlesuits while lighting up the enemy.

Fighting a good Necron player requires knowing his tactics, not his army. For example, if he marches his Lord in the midst of all of his Necron Warriors, I'm going to direct shooting at everything else in the beginning of the game. If he is elsewhere, direct all the shooting at the Warriors.

Here are some general rules to consider I used when I did beat the Necrons. I can't help you further because this is a matter of strategy and usage of terrain rather than deciding what units to take.


1. One thing I've learned when I lose to Necrons is to never ever split your shooting. Concentrate fire, concentrate fire, concentrate fire. Tau are no exception and be masters of this. The units I do wipe out and give myself a chance are when I take the most threatening unit and blast them to bits with every single unit I have.

2. Utilize cover to the fullest for your Fire Warriors and Battlesuits. With the new "run" ability, forsaking a shot with your suits to move 18" from one spot to another is vital.

3. Mobility is always key in an army. Tau aren't fast, but they are easily redeployable. You know from experience that his nasty gauss weapons are very capable at medium ranges.

....A. Destroyers are some of your highest threat. I've fooled two Necron players and forced them to rework their tactics when I engaged his Destroyers in close combat with battlesuits. While this sound incredibly stupid, consider this scenario: He had 3 Necron Destroyers on a sort of flank looking right at my Hammerheads. My battlesuits were near the center of the board, taking cover from the rows and rows of unmoving Warriors. He could've shot at my Battlesuits, my Fire warriors (in the building) or my Hammerheads, and I didn't like any of those options. So, I geared up my Shas'o and his bodyguard, shot, and assaulted the Destroyers.
A Shas'o (and Shadowsun is no exception) has 5 attacks on the charge, and with Shadowsun's 3 drones, that's a total of 11 attacks in close combat. For real Battlesuits (with a strength of 5), it really helps, and with drones, its annoying with the extra saves necessary.

If you destroy the Destroyers, you have eliminated his mobile firepower. If you stay engaged in close combat, he can't shoot gauss weapons at you. I assault enemies with my Tau to prevent getting outshot by a more powerful foe. Trust me, if the Battlesuits are unwounded, if they shoot and assault Destroyers, they will win in close combat.

.... B. Still on the mobilty topic, utlize the Tau movement to gain excellent shooting positions to concentrate on the enemy unit that can be reached the most. For Necrons, its about eliminating as many of them as possible. Force him to divide his shooting or fall largely out of range.

4. If you can interchange your weapons, take plasma and fusion as much as possible to ensure the deaths of the Necrons. Also, as I've said, consider markerlights. If your Fire Warriors can outrange the Necrons, why not outshoot them as well? Believe you me, hitting on a 2+ with a rain of pulse fire is extradinarily devestating, even against Terminators. For the Hammerheads, take an Ion Cannon.

Monoliths and C'tan are mainly distraction units in a Necron army. No matter how much tactical power a player values them, they are still only a distraction.
5. If you suspect he's going to take a Monolith, ignore it as much as you can: phase him out. I don't care if it Deep Strikes in the midst of 2 full units of Fire Warriors and is shooting them to death. It isn't worth it. I've only seen two occasions a Monolith went down: When I fired 3 times at one with Railguns and an Ion Cannon till it sank to the ground, and when 10 Wraithguard swallowed it whole with their weapons. With the run special rules, run from the Monolith if you want to, but the Fire Warriors should all be in cover anyway.

6. The general rule used to be to ignore the C'tan. I've only heard of one time a C'tan died, and it was an extremely lucky tank shock, but I've rarely heard the C'tan doing much damage due to their slow walking, like Avatar or a Carnifex. With the run ability, that changed: now the C'tan have fleet. The last time I played against Necrons I made the mistake of ignoring it. Now it is a matter of attention. Concentrate fire, concentrate fire, concentrate fire. If anyone carries the firepower to effectively remove a C'tan, its the Tau. Even though it may only wound on a 6, having the basic strength of 5 everywhere can surprise you.

7. If you have that many gun drones, it may surprise you that I suggest taking a Gun Drone Squadron and place them in Reserve. The idea is to use them as a distraction and annoyance factor. Add the free gun drones from the Devilfishes (if you care to take any) and you can set up a whole row of Gun Drones in front of your Fire Warriors. This used to be awesome when Target Priority was a rule, but it is no more. The thing the Drones will do is serve as a distraction at a very cheap cost. Drones might not do too well against 'Crons in close combat, but if they assault and go first (check Initative, its 4), they have a bit of a chance to do some damage.
But with 5th Edition, with that unit of Drones in the way, anything the Necrons shoot at will have a cover save or count as obscured. He's going to have to stop shooting at your army and deal with the Drones some day. If it means assaulting them, well he's wasting his time not shooting and getting closer to you.

Drones also contribute to the high mobility as they, too, have jetpacks.

8. This is just my personal method of starting any game, but start well-hidden or completely out of sight. This forces your opponent to effectively give you the first turn, even if the dice say you go second (I tend to choose my opponent to go first anyway if possible). Lying in wait with your vehicles and suits while he has nothing to shoot at forces him to move around (e.g. into the open) before you pull out and start concentrating shots at anyone who dared to move close enough.

These suggestions (and more if you explain his methods in detail) allows you to use anything in your own list effectively against Necrons. Too many players (even all GW staff I've met) make believe that there are ulitmate lists of doom and rules that cheese out a particular army. When playing at the store, I tend to get caught up in this sense, but when my cousin comes to town with his weirldy and poorly constructed armies with a grand master plan, it doesn't matter what kind of army you throw at him. Strategic analyasis of your opponent, your options, terrain, and ideals can win the game for you, even if your army is not a "great list".
__________________
If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
Of every instrument.


Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
Colonel Marksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Nov 2008, 06:34   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 296
Send a message via AIM to LiinSivi Send a message via Yahoo to LiinSivi
Default Re: Fighting Necrons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Marksman
I don't understand why people come, look at what a person has, and say, "no you need..." if they don't have or use those models, they don't. I don't see a third Hammerhead in that list. (I have 3, and I still find it difficult to fight Necrons!)

I bet he carry a Monolith often, which would tell me he's a very experienced Necron player, but from looking at the list and from personal experience, I can guess that his Immortals are paired with the Lord (though it doesn't matter who the Lord is with, that Res Orb is going to bring back the 'Crons from 100 Orbital Strikes.)

I've recently been doing an overhaul study of Tau markerlights, and I discovered that by giving markerlights to your Stealthsuits, (because they are relentless), they can now move and shoot the markerlights. In addition, Marker Drones (which you have none of, I know) can also prove their worth as they can move and bounce around with the Battlesuits while lighting up the enemy.

Fighting a good Necron player requires knowing his tactics, not his army. For example, if he marches his Lord in the midst of all of his Necron Warriors, I'm going to direct shooting at everything else in the beginning of the game. If he is elsewhere, direct all the shooting at the Warriors.

Here are some general rules to consider I used when I did beat the Necrons. I can't help you further because this is a matter of strategy and usage of terrain rather than deciding what units to take.


1. One thing I've learned when I lose to Necrons is to never ever split your shooting. Concentrate fire, concentrate fire, concentrate fire. Tau are no exception and be masters of this. The units I do wipe out and give myself a chance are when I take the most threatening unit and blast them to bits with every single unit I have.

2. Utilize cover to the fullest for your Fire Warriors and Battlesuits. With the new "run" ability, forsaking a shot with your suits to move 18" from one spot to another is vital.

3. Mobility is always key in an army. Tau aren't fast, but they are easily redeployable. You know from experience that his nasty gauss weapons are very capable at medium ranges.

....A. Destroyers are some of your highest threat. I've fooled two Necron players and forced them to rework their tactics when I engaged his Destroyers in close combat with battlesuits. While this sound incredibly stupid, consider this scenario: He had 3 Necron Destroyers on a sort of flank looking right at my Hammerheads. My battlesuits were near the center of the board, taking cover from the rows and rows of unmoving Warriors. He could've shot at my Battlesuits, my Fire warriors (in the building) or my Hammerheads, and I didn't like any of those options. So, I geared up my Shas'o and his bodyguard, shot, and assaulted the Destroyers.
A Shas'o (and Shadowsun is no exception) has 5 attacks on the charge, and with Shadowsun's 3 drones, that's a total of 11 attacks in close combat. For real Battlesuits (with a strength of 5), it really helps, and with drones, its annoying with the extra saves necessary.

If you destroy the Destroyers, you have eliminated his mobile firepower. If you stay engaged in close combat, he can't shoot gauss weapons at you. I assault enemies with my Tau to prevent getting outshot by a more powerful foe. Trust me, if the Battlesuits are unwounded, if they shoot and assault Destroyers, they will win in close combat.

.... B. Still on the mobilty topic, utlize the Tau movement to gain excellent shooting positions to concentrate on the enemy unit that can be reached the most. For Necrons, its about eliminating as many of them as possible. Force him to divide his shooting or fall largely out of range.

4. If you can interchange your weapons, take plasma and fusion as much as possible to ensure the deaths of the Necrons. Also, as I've said, consider markerlights. If your Fire Warriors can outrange the Necrons, why not outshoot them as well? Believe you me, hitting on a 2+ with a rain of pulse fire is extradinarily devestating, even against Terminators. For the Hammerheads, take an Ion Cannon.

Monoliths and C'tan are mainly distraction units in a Necron army. No matter how much tactical power a player values them, they are still only a distraction.
5. If you suspect he's going to take a Monolith, ignore it as much as you can: phase him out. I don't care if it Deep Strikes in the midst of 2 full units of Fire Warriors and is shooting them to death. It isn't worth it. I've only seen two occasions a Monolith went down: When I fired 3 times at one with Railguns and an Ion Cannon till it sank to the ground, and when 10 Wraithguard swallowed it whole with their weapons. With the run special rules, run from the Monolith if you want to, but the Fire Warriors should all be in cover anyway.

6. The general rule used to be to ignore the C'tan. I've only heard of one time a C'tan died, and it was an extremely lucky tank shock, but I've rarely heard the C'tan doing much damage due to their slow walking, like Avatar or a Carnifex. With the run ability, that changed: now the C'tan have fleet. The last time I played against Necrons I made the mistake of ignoring it. Now it is a matter of attention. Concentrate fire, concentrate fire, concentrate fire. If anyone carries the firepower to effectively remove a C'tan, its the Tau. Even though it may only wound on a 6, having the basic strength of 5 everywhere can surprise you.

7. If you have that many gun drones, it may surprise you that I suggest taking a Gun Drone Squadron and place them in Reserve. The idea is to use them as a distraction and annoyance factor. Add the free gun drones from the Devilfishes (if you care to take any) and you can set up a whole row of Gun Drones in front of your Fire Warriors. This used to be awesome when Target Priority was a rule, but it is no more. The thing the Drones will do is serve as a distraction at a very cheap cost. Drones might not do too well against 'Crons in close combat, but if they assault and go first (check Initative, its 4), they have a bit of a chance to do some damage.
But with 5th Edition, with that unit of Drones in the way, anything the Necrons shoot at will have a cover save or count as obscured. He's going to have to stop shooting at your army and deal with the Drones some day. If it means assaulting them, well he's wasting his time not shooting and getting closer to you.

Drones also contribute to the high mobility as they, too, have jetpacks.

8. This is just my personal method of starting any game, but start well-hidden or completely out of sight. This forces your opponent to effectively give you the first turn, even if the dice say you go second (I tend to choose my opponent to go first anyway if possible). Lying in wait with your vehicles and suits while he has nothing to shoot at forces him to move around (e.g. into the open) before you pull out and start concentrating shots at anyone who dared to move close enough.

These suggestions (and more if you explain his methods in detail) allows you to use anything in your own list effectively against Necrons. Too many players (even all GW staff I've met) make believe that there are ulitmate lists of doom and rules that cheese out a particular army. When playing at the store, I tend to get caught up in this sense, but when my cousin comes to town with his weirldy and poorly constructed armies with a grand master plan, it doesn't matter what kind of army you throw at him. Strategic analyasis of your opponent, your options, terrain, and ideals can win the game for you, even if your army is not a "great list".
Very well said! I'd give you karma if I could.

Yes he fields the Monolith every game without fail. Over the course of the games we've played he's grown a strong hatred for XV88s. Every game without fail he turbo boosts his Wraiths toward my lines, in particular, to my Broadsides. It's one reason I started fielding teams of one and even keeping one of those in reserves I know his 'lith isn't going to hit until turn 2 at the earliest. Your absolutely right about him keeping the Lord with his Immortals. Another tactic he sometimes uses is to give the Lord the Destroyer body and run him up the board with the Wraiths with no more purpose than to take on my XV88s. I've used Ionheads against him, field two once. I found that they didn't make their points often due to the fact that I can't seem to roll above 2 for my Hammerheads. With markerlights maybe that could change. His Destoyers have always been a bane for me. As you well know they chew through Warrior with amazing speed. That being said, my Crisis teams first priority is taking them on.
__________________
Imperial troops who fought in the Damocles Crusade described the signature of the barely visible markerlight beams as the Valkyrie's Mark, because those it chose were soon numbered among the dead

"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his" --George S. Patton
LiinSivi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Nov 2008, 06:50   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 232
Default Re: Fighting Necrons

One suggestion here, stop with the TW plasmas and the flamers. I can't really see the effectiveness of a strength 4 AP 5 weapon against feel no pain toughness 4 3+ save base models.

Take off the twin-linking, throw on a fusion blaster and a multi-tracker and fit more of your army out with markerlights.

The few times I've faced necrons usually involved me causing his army to phase-out by focus-firing his warriors with as many low AP weapons as possible.

(This is one of the few armies against which you should bring ion-heads as opposed to railheads, just run/avoid line of sight with that monolith in favor of directing all of your fire at phase-out units.)

__________________
Farsight '08
Saracen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Nov 2008, 07:41   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Default Re: Fighting Necrons

Well as far as advice on beating Crons I really have very little. I've only played them once and it was by far the most difficult game I ever played. One thing to remember is if your going to shoot at a squad make sure you kill it all the way dead. I'm sure you already know that even if there is one guy left in the squad half of what you just killed will just get back up.

One thing I wanted to point out was something about your stealthsuits and targeting arrays. I saw that in your first post you were a big fan of useing the targeting array but I've noticed more recentally that it might not be worth the points. If you have six stealth with targeting arrays they cost 240 points and have 18 shots with a probrabillity of 12 of your shots actually hitting a target. Without the targeting arrays you can afford eight steathsuits for 240 points, they have 24 and with the prabrability being that 12 of your shots hitting.

So what I've found is that since the prabrability in the two senarios is exactally the same I would much rather have two extra steathsuits with me, they're basically two more wounds then you would have with the Targeting Array setup.

Belive me I am by no means saying your method is worng because I used to, and still am known to use the targeting arrays on my stealth. Just figured I would point this out maybe give you something to think about. Maybe there some diffrent way to configure them thats more adventageous and if you think of anything let me know because I'm still trying to figure out the best way to implement my own stealthsuits.
__________________
Tau W-19 L-9 T-22
Eldar W-8 L-0 T-1
Blood Angels W-4 L-0 T-0
Imperial Guard W-0 L-0 T-1
Chewey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Nov 2008, 07:52   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 296
Send a message via AIM to LiinSivi Send a message via Yahoo to LiinSivi
Default Re: Fighting Necrons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen
One suggestion here, stop with the TW plasmas and the flamers. I can't really see the effectiveness of a strength 4 AP 5 weapon against feel no pain toughness 4 3+ save base models.

Take off the twin-linking, throw on a fusion blaster and a multi-tracker and fit more of your army out with markerlights.

The few times I've faced necrons usually involved me causing his army to phase-out by focus-firing his warriors with as many low AP weapons as possible.

(This is one of the few armies against which you should bring ion-heads as opposed to railheads, just run/avoid line of sight with that monolith in favor of directing all of your fire at phase-out units.)

The flamer is there for no other reason than to fill the last slot. I could take BSFs but their uses are so limited that a flamer could actually do more good if say they were firing at Scarab swarms. I TLed the Plasma because it's more accurate than being assisted by a markerlight which in most cases I'd rather use to negate cover saves so the AP of the Plasma actually matters and not increasing their BS.
__________________
Imperial troops who fought in the Damocles Crusade described the signature of the barely visible markerlight beams as the Valkyrie's Mark, because those it chose were soon numbered among the dead

"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his" --George S. Patton
LiinSivi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Nov 2008, 23:59   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Eastern Fringe
Posts: 1,685
Send a message via AIM to Colonel Marksman
Default Re: Fighting Necrons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen
One suggestion here, stop with the TW plasmas and the flamers. I can't really see the effectiveness of a strength 4 AP 5 weapon against feel no pain toughness 4 3+ save base models.

Take off the twin-linking, throw on a fusion blaster and a multi-tracker and fit more of your army out with markerlights.

The few times I've faced necrons usually involved me causing his army to phase-out by focus-firing his warriors with as many low AP weapons as possible.

(This is one of the few armies against which you should bring ion-heads as opposed to railheads, just run/avoid line of sight with that monolith in favor of directing all of your fire at phase-out units.)
This is well-said. In an 1850-point match (you said you play from 1500-2000 right?) 235 points soaks up more Necrons that one can imagine.


I've never dealth with Wraiths before, but I have seen them in very devestating action. However, pulling up their Codex, I found they only have 1 wound each at T:4. Try this: Instead of facing the inevitable, give him first turn and keep your Broadsides very far back. When you play against opponents like Eldar and Necrons, sometimes the only key to winning is judging distance. For example, if deployment is 12", you know that if you put the Broadsides six inches up, and he puts the Wraiths up as far as possible, you have 26" of distance. Even if he turbo-boosts and sits right in front of you, he can't reach you. When they get there (probably out in the open or close to your lines), shoot everything in range at them. If he has the Lord with 'em, all the more reason.

Keep a squad of Stealthsuits or several Warriors nearby. If I you had an Ethereal, I'd personally suggest a Fire Warrior Honor Guard team and have 1 or more markerlights around. If you can eliminate the Wraiths (he can only make so many 3+ invulnerable saves) firsthand, he not only lost Necrons, but he lost his speed and his biggest threat (your Broadsides) are still there. Another idea to protect your Broadsides is with a Defensive FOF (involve markerlights).

But if he's got a 3+ Invulnerable save, don't shoot the Broadsides at the Wraiths. Target something weaker that will almost garuntee a fall.

If his Monoliths really fear the Broadsides THAT much, you can determine that he'll probably Deep Strike that Monolith out of their way as he sends other units after them (Destroyers?). This allows you to set up a trap for his army. The idea is to ignore the Monolith. Because your XV88s have such an influence on your friend, you can use that to your psychological advantage. Blotching up your army on one corner (where a building may be or something) will force the Necrons to also concentrate. If he doesn't, your army can sweep through the Necrons, using their own strategy against them: isolated destruction.

The absolute worst set-up against Necrons is a balanced one, or one that is spread out. This just makes it easier for him, especially if he has teleportation. I played with Genestealer Cult (a weaker, Orky version of Imperial Guard) and crammed everything I had in a 2'x2' square in a corner (save my heavy weapons) and it took him six turns and combined use with the C'tan to root me out. If I had charged after him in one big mob, I probably could've won. (He was knitting his Necrons so they provided cover saves for each other, but at the expense of giving me cover saves. I wish I thought of that).

Also by botching up your deployment, you force your friend to play your game as a Tau player: firepower onslaught. The Necrons can't win at that. We (Tau) outrange them, outgun them, and out-power them.



I just now noticed your Battlesuit equipment. Remove the twin-linking and get multi-tracker instead. Sacrifice Warriors if you must, you don't need to employ a full 12-man squad. Then equip them with missile pod (2+ to wound with range that can keep up with the plasma and out of range of many enemy weapons) fusion blaster (very powerful, if you care to get sacked in the face with gauss, so take shields and drones).

But you can sacrifce power for more shots and force him to roll his armor saves. Instead of nit-picking at 1-2 kills per shooting phase, take a burst cannon and missilepod. You're shooting less for a 2+ to wound as opposed to a 3+ to wound. You're still lightly equipped against tanks, and if something should go wrong, 36" asault range is very nifty! Plus you can still keep out of rapid-fire range if you jump back.

If you don't like those ideas, keep the twin-linked plasma and get a target array. But please remove the flamer. That's just too close and too ineffective.

I've been recently doing an overhaul anayalsis of markerlights (and the drones). I know it sounds expensive, but consider taking a marker drone (or two, but no more), and then a number of gun drones or shield drones or mix, but I suggest gun drones. IF your markerlight DOES hit, you can upgrade the BS to 4, (or 5 with a target array) and we'll consider this scenario.

Plasma rifle, fusion blaster (3 shots at 2+ to wound at 12" and no armor save) on 3 Battlesuits w/multi. Also add 5 gun drones. That's 9 shots hitting 3+ at 2+ to wound (no armor save), plus another 5 shots from the gun drones. You don't need to use the markerlights to negate cover, the cover save is going to be worse than the 3+ (if you have flamers, you ignore the cover save altogether anyway). You're getting about 6 cover/no saves (yikes!) plus another 3 normal from the gun drones.

If you had a second Battlesuit squad do the same, you total 12 cover/no armor saves and 6 normal armor saves, that's if he's lucky. If you light up the squad with Pathfinders or more markerlights (say 4), you not only have enough to make shots 2+ hit, 2+ wound, but also negate his cover save to 0+. This allows Broadsides, Hammerheads, or other long-range firepower to wipe out the rest. If you have the range, assault them, they won't win. Even if it (was) a 20-man squad reduced to 8 Warriors, they have to get through the drones before they hit the suits, (and the drones go first if there is no cover) and then you're piling a total of 9 S:5 hits (suits) with 12 hits at S:3 (drones). It's still 4+ to hit, you're forcing at least 12 armor saves (if he's lucky).

If the Warriors (somehow) survive the combat, nothing can shoot back at the Battlesuits. Alternatively, you can jump back and keep out of rapid fire range. Now if there's another 20-man squad next to the one you were shooting, obviously CC isn't an option but you'd be surprised how long Battesuits can stay in a CC fight, especially if the opponent has I:2 like you do.

If I were you though, I'd have that 8-man drone squadron help me finish off the enemy or annoy the other unit of Necrons, plus the Stealthsuits with the Battlesuits. With this tactic, if he's got 3 units of 20 Necrons, in 4 turns, there won't be any more Necrons. He'll be forced to Deep Strike that Monolith to protect the dwindling Necrons, but that's when you engage in CC. Now the Monolith (which can't shoot at the Battlesuits) is just a sitting target for Railheads, Seeker Missiles, and Broadsides. If he places the Monolith in your own battlelines, that's fine, he's facing your Broadsides. It'll take awhile for that Monolith to wipe them out, and by then you've got your chances to light it up and hammer it enough to make him gulp every time.

But if you can, ignore the Monolith altogether and focus on the rest of his army. The Monolith is no good if it phases out. If you had a choice for the Monolith or the Immortals and Lord, choose the Immortals. 10 Immortals and a Lord together cost more than the Monolith anyway.
__________________
If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
Of every instrument.


Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
Colonel Marksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help Fighting Necrons Sushi636 Forces of Chaos 8 19 Feb 2010 08:07
I can't stand fighting Necrons Vau Tau 138 30 Apr 2009 19:45
Fighting Necrons Decidated zur Freiheit! Space Marines 7 04 Jun 2008 16:44