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BS4 baseline for XV8s
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Old 11 Nov 2008, 05:16   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default BS4 baseline for XV8s

My thoughts:
All XV-8 Crisis suits should have a baseline of BS4. All. Shas'vre up to Shas'O.

Why?
Because they're working the same equipment. Experience with the equipment shouldn't effect how well your TARGETING SENSORS target and shoot. If anything, extended use of the suit should increase the user's I, WS, Ld, and possibly A.

Arguments against:
-The Shas'el and Shas'O have been fighting in their suits for so long, they practically live in them. To quote Falstead,"A shas'o to a fire warrior is an exarch to an aspect warrior." (may or may not be entirely accurate.)

New thoughts:
In the book Firewarrior, El'Lusha can't see as well as he used to, yet he has the same accuracy as his 'Vre squad mates.
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Old 11 Nov 2008, 05:21   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: BS4 baseline for XV8s

Tau are BS 3 for a reason.

It makes us UNIQUE. It forces us to make choices, decisions and have our army work together.

From a background perspective Tau are inferior to every other 40k species, except maybe some grots. They're slower, they're eyes are worse and it takes them more time to focus on things.

There's a system in place to get BS4 suits already, the targeting array. Furthermore we've got markerlights and twin-linking readily available to us. There's no NEED for BS 4 suits. It's being greedy and lazy. Make some decisions and do some work.

BS 3 suits are far more fun.
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Old 11 Nov 2008, 05:38   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: BS4 baseline for XV8s

Well greedy and lazy comments aside it makes sense fluffwise. They're the elites of the Tau military and to think that they're no better shots than a guardsman seems kind of silly. However, in game terms it makes better sense for them to be ballistic skill 3.

There are so many options that we have to buff the ballistic skill of our crisis suits that it's pretty incredible. We can twinlink any weapon that we want to put on them. We can give them weapon combinations that can give them so many shots that it guarantees a hit. We can give targetting arrays to bump up ballistic skill. We can twin-link weapons AND give a targetting array to make them twin-linked bs4. If you can give the suit a hardwired multi-tracker then you can give a twin-linked weapon and then add another weapon. Or you could just do it the old fashioned way and use marker lights. If you really wanna be tricky then you can combine any or all of these abilities and configurations any way you can imagine.

I used to think that Crisis suits should be BS 4. It makes sense fluffwise, however in game terms it would make them a little ridiculous considering all the other things you can do to modify their ballistic skill. Could you imagine a unit of crisis suits flying around the field with twin-linked ballistic skill 5 plasma-rifles? Give them a little marker light support and then nothing get's a cover save from them. That would be quite over-powered in my opinion.
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Old 11 Nov 2008, 05:42   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: BS4 baseline for XV8s

Remember, this is a MODEL. I can't say it is exactly true, but it is what seems the closest to what would be, in my mind.

Well, In my opinion, the opposite of yours should be true. When in any program, or robot, there is probably something, be it crosshairs or a little pretty dot, to tell the operator where the weapons he controls will fire. Of course, this is well and fine for stationary targets, or one in a straight line from the barrel of the weapon. However, if the suit itself is moving sideways, or forwards even with the vertical movement, then the aim will not be true. This defect would be obvious in most of the new pilots, as they probably won't be used to both moving and firing their weapon in as controlled a manner as required by some of the battlesuit systems. The best adapted would be those with a pulse carbine, yet this would only work with thise weapons that unleash huge volumes of fire- namely, the burst cannon, and the cyclic ion blaster (which they would not yet have access to), along with any twin-linked systems of the plasma rifle. this compensation comes from the high rate of fire that comes from their weapons normally,simply meaning that more will hit.

To compensate for this is (probably) the targeting array. This is a system that is plausible, as we have developed them on fighter jets already for their cannon (either that, or Ace Combat isn't as realistic as it claims to be). It would allow them to move and also keep a steady aim on their target if they decide to strafe, and would help them adjust to moving and firing whatever weapon they carry.

However, there is also the movement of the enemy to worry about. If an enemy bike squad is rapidly going off to your right flank, firing directly at them would cause a miss due to their high speed (unless it is a railgun). Now, with combat experience, an experienced pilot will be able to take their focal aiming mechanism, be it crosshairs or pretty laser dot, and aim it slightly ahead to compensate for their movement. This would be only possible through experience of judging relatively how fast the target is moving, and how fast the projectile from the weapon is. If there is a targeting array, this would assist in doing so while moving, pumping it up to the next level.

In the realm of BS 5, I would imagine that the tau would have another set of skills and a combination of the first. First, by now he would well be reliable at firing while moving, and firing at moving targets. Now, he can combine these two to make him able to both move, and hit his moving target. However, this may very well also be in the realm of BS 4, so there would have to be something more to happen. That, I think, would be knowing how the enemy is going to move-- the tactical responsibility of battlefield commanders, such as Shas'Os. Such naturally falls into the realm of a commander, and that is why BS5 is normally reserved for them.
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Old 11 Nov 2008, 05:56   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: BS4 baseline for XV8s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barack Obamastead
From a background perspective Tau are inferior to every other 40k species, except maybe some grots. They're slower, they're eyes are worse and it takes them more time to focus on things.
Err... What? What background are you reading? From a background perspective they are comparable with humans in almost every respect. Their eyesight is different but it certainly isn't worse.
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Old 11 Nov 2008, 06:03   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: BS4 baseline for XV8s

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbBiden_the_Despoiler
To compensate for this is (probably) the targeting array. This is a system that is plausible, as we have developed them on fighter jets already for their cannon (either that, or Ace Combat isn't as realistic as it claims to be). It would allow them to move and also keep a steady aim on their target if they decide to strafe, and would help them adjust to moving and firing whatever weapon they carry.

However, there is also the movement of the enemy to worry about.
Yes, the range and relative movement of the enemy are exactly what the targeting array deals with. Actually using the gear to point the guns at a target rather than a tree (AI has such difficulty with that task...stupid drones!) is the job of the pilot.
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Old 11 Nov 2008, 08:30   #7 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: BS4 baseline for XV8s

I have all BS4 suits now. Its hardly a chore to slap on TA's, plus I keep my suits specialized for one purpose rather than fail at everything.

We shouldn't have to, I admit, but thats the way it is. Suits should logically be BS4 basic, with no option for a targetting array (call it built in).

Even returning the points to 30 for that benefit might be worth it.
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Old 11 Nov 2008, 11:16   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: BS4 baseline for XV8s


Pro BS4: One could argue that the suit could compensate for the movement of the suit automatically. This would be plain logic as you don't send your warrior to combat with a handicap. Also in a highly advanced society (like the Tau seem to be) would it be logical that the AI of the suit could even compensate for the movement of the enemy. Sure there would be a response time as the enemy changes direction or suddenly stops but not more then a few milliseconds.

Now against that issue: You could say that the AI developed by the Tau is far from perfect. The normal drone can't even shoot as straight as a normal humanbeing. Be it deliberate (to avoid AI rebelion) or because they are just an emerging race, there could be little flaws in the AI so the suit wouldn't respond as fast as the pilot would want. So even if the pilot would be better at normal shooting at the firing range, it would be a lot harder to get the same results with the suit.

As for personal thoughts: I'd like to see the Shas'vre (at least) get the BS4. They are far superior in both experience as equipment then the normal Shas'ui. It seems that there could even be cases that the 'Vre would be as experienced as the commander, and so even permit them the BS5 of the 'O. So either the 'Vre would get BS4 or they would get the same BS as the commander.
If not getting that then the commanders BS -1 now the Shas'o would get BS4 'Vres and the 'El would get the normal BS3. This last would maybe be fairer as the commander IS the better of the veterans. So now the 'Vres would be worse then the commander but don't seem like the wussy 'Ui to get a promotion just because his teamleader got one. :

Greetz
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Old 11 Nov 2008, 12:04   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: BS4 baseline for XV8s

I think improved targeting suites should be assumed in suits. Id remove targeters from the wargear list and let all suits have an assumed +1 to BS worked into the stat line.
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Old 11 Nov 2008, 12:15   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: BS4 baseline for XV8s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col.Angus
I think improved targeting suites should be assumed in suits. Id remove targeters from the wargear list and let all suits have an assumed +1 to BS worked into the stat line.
Not a bad idea.. for what is the purpose of Battle suits, if not enhancing capabilities ?
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