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Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights
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Old 09 Nov 2008, 03:17   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights

I while back I posted at topic because my opponents were trying to claim cover saves to negate my markerlight hits. Well, I once again got into detailed arguments about this. I won this time, but it was close, my opponent claiming that he had seen an FAQ that said you could negate markerlights with cover saves. The claims that markerlights don't cause wounds and therefore do not allow cover saves do not really convince them.

Its getting to the point that I need written proof that you do not get cover saves against markerlights. Can anyone help me with this problem?

Thanks.
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Old 09 Nov 2008, 03:21   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights

There's no errata of Faq saying that.

I'll go check to be sure, but that'd be ridiculous.

EDIT- Nothing I can find about any sort of errata. So your safe there.

The closest thing is the psychic attacks ruling for the BOB. It specifically states that only wounding psychic attacks are subject to cover saves.
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Old 09 Nov 2008, 03:31   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights

Quote:
Before he removes any models as casualties, the owning player can test to see whether his troops avoid the damage by making a saving throw.
A cover save is a saving throw. Markerlights to not make a "to wound" roll, nor do they automatically wound. They don't do any damage, therefore you don't get to make a saving throw against it.
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Old 09 Nov 2008, 03:37   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights

It's basic rules lawyering. The rules state you take saves from wounds. Markerlights do not wound.

Damn was ninja'd/
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Old 09 Nov 2008, 03:41   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights

Ok, next step is to simply point out the rules for saving throws from the 40k manual.
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Old 09 Nov 2008, 03:45   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights

How can you get a save from something that doesn't do damage.... If you wanted it to be said in more rule lawering speak... A Cover save is performered after all wounds from that particular round of firing have been made... It is exactly the same as a normal except except that it can be taken Regardless of what the AP of a weapon is. Unless of course the weapon has rules for negating Cover and that the unit can indeed recieve A Cover Save in the first place. A Saving Throw is only taken if there are wounds that can be saved caused to the unit. If there are no wounds caused then no saves can be taken. A Marker Light can not wound and as such can not be saved against.

I shall go page hunting now...

Page 29 Codex: Tau Empire, the big box about Marker Lights, Str N/A AP N/A
-It doesn't have any special rules about auto wounding on a 4+ and so forth, therefor it can not wound

Page 20 40k Rule Book 5th Edition, Taking Saving Throws.
Quote:
Before Removing any models as casualties, the owning player may see whether his troops avoid the [b][u]DAMAGE by making a saving throw....
Page 25 40k Rule Book 5th Edition, Taking Saving Throws.
Quote:
Having allocated the [b][u]WOUNDS, all the models in the unit that are identical....
Tada you need to wound to save...

And onto wounding part of the lawering to competly crush them...

Page 29 Codex: Tau Empire, the big box about Marker Lights,
Quote:
Each time you hit a target with a Markerlight, put a counter....
notice the everytime you HIT part... it doesn't say wound, it says hit....
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Old 09 Nov 2008, 03:56   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights

I have advanced arguments very similar to the one you just provided Merqu. And yet, they still grumble about it being "shooting" and about it "making sense" that they should get cover saves. Thus far, I have been able to hold my own. But it is an absolute pain in the butt to have to constantly argue with every other player over this.
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Old 09 Nov 2008, 04:09   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights

In that case, to truly shut them up, e-mail GW.
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Old 09 Nov 2008, 04:15   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights

Well then you have 2 options...
1. Email Games Workshop or go into a Games Workshop (or local gaming store that do 40K) with the people you play with and ask.

or my personal fav...

2. DREADSOCK!!
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Old 09 Nov 2008, 04:16   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Rules Lawyers Needed: Opponents still want cover saves against markerlights

If he's going for "makes sense" and "realism" make sure to inform him that half of his army just died from the single Railgun shot within their midst.

Also tell him, (for realisms sake) that the troops you shoot through don't provide cover saves unless he's willing to place all saved wounds on the intervening unit(s).

Then dreadsock him and tell him to stop being a douche.
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