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achancesw 02 Nov 2008 17:20

The gun line
 
How viable is this now that you can no longer daisy chain assaults?

In 3rd I ran 72 Firewarriors, took my opponet a long time to kill them with sweeping advance, but now I can rapidfire at those guys.

Togashi Johnathan 02 Nov 2008 17:32

Re: The gun line
 
I'm not sure. So far in my games no one has gotten close enough to tear into them. But I also haven't gone against a dedicated CC army either...

razgriz_cipher 02 Nov 2008 17:41

Re: The gun line
 
The problem is the leadership and any fast assault units. If your opponent brings all assult squads and hits all of your squads at once you may not be rapid firing. Also you will get sweeping advanced to death by marines as they have 2 higher initiative. Also heavy bolters will be a major problem because of the low otughness and save. Ravensquig, Ravenwing, all assult marine blood angels, and white scars will give you a really hard time. Also the run rule makes it easier for enemies to get closer. You also lose shooting if you cannot just sit on your objectives. Anhilation may become a problem becuase you will give up kill points very easily. SO I do not really think it is that viable.

achancesw 02 Nov 2008 17:46

Re: The gun line
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Wu
The problem is the leadership and any fast assault units. If your opponent brings all assult squads and hits all of your squads at once you may not be rapid firing. Also you will get sweeping advanced to death by marines as they have 2 higher initiative. Also heavy bolters will be a major problem because of the low otughness and save. Ravensquig, Ravenwing, all assult marine blood angels, and white scars will give you a really hard time. Also the run rule makes it easier for enemies to get closer. You also lose shooting if you cannot just sit on your objectives. Anhilation may become a problem becuase you will give up kill points very easily. SO I do not really think it is that viable.

There is no more sweeping advance they cannot consolodate into combat, so they get their but shot off the next turn

emmagine 02 Nov 2008 18:26

Re: The gun line
 
hes not saying you will get consolidated into, he's saying all your units will be assaulted at once. I think he doesn't understand exactly how gunlines work. I think he is under the impression that you are talking about making one long line of fire warriors.

A gun line has ranks of lines, and they are actually quite useful under the new rules. You are better off though sticking some detached drones in front of your gun lines. They are going to be in your army anyway, enemies can't shoot 4 squads of detached drones down and then assault you very easily. And if they do it costs them their run move. But most important, if they assault the gun drones they are not consolidating into your fire warriors... and the 2 squad gun drones WILL die off, preventing you from having 2 or 3 "lucky" fire warriors left at the end of your enemies assault phase.

In short, detached drones now make fantastic speed bumps.

Other than that, beware any fast moving assault army. orks, or an assault heavy eldar army would both put you in trouble.

Lastly, it isn't the worst idea to keep a line of kroot behind your fire warriors, using the fire warriors for cover, then charging during your turn. They would have been shot up bad in 4th, but now it isn't the case.

SHAS VRE 02 Nov 2008 18:27

Re: The gun line
 
Really depends on who your playing against, and how your board is set up. In order for this to work your going to need lots of cover otherwise your going to get chewed up be any half decent shooting army as t3 and 4+ save is just not good enought. Against armies with Either very low saves (orks, eldar without to many asspects) this list will do great as these 72 fire warriors dont even come to half your army in a 1500 point game, also againt MEQ armies with low numbers of models (korn/slanesh) then you should do fine as these are not any harder to kill than normal marines but cost more for feel the loses much worse and with this high a rate of fire they will fail saves. Where i think this armie will not to very well against is High model count MEQ armies who have enough you wont have enough other units in your amy to deal effectively with all the MEQs. Also Imperial guard who are content to sit back in cover were they can use there high number of heavy weapons and pie plate tanks to out shoot you, and again you wont have enought mobile units to get up close and do some real dammage.

razgriz_cipher 02 Nov 2008 18:37

Re: The gun line
 
So even if you have ranks then the enemy gets cover saves. They also can consolidate into cover if they are lucky. The detached drones provide kill points and capturing objectives can also be a problem. Also jump infantry can jump over gunlines. Also some enemies might be able to get multiple in a turn. So even if they get killed in shooting they still took one of your units down. It depneds on the skill of the opponent also. Lash will also kill this kind of army badly. otuflanking is also a problem they can be killed by basically anything that can infiltrate. Also you will ahve to take lots of leadership tests at leaderhsip 8 unless you tkae shodwsun which is a ton of points. I see them doing fine in capture and control but sieze ground is not good. Also toughness 4+ save is not good for anhilation.

emmagine 02 Nov 2008 18:43

Re: The gun line
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Wu
So even if you have ranks then the enemy gets cover saves. They also can consolidate into cover if they are lucky. The detached drones provide kill points and capturing objectives can also be a problem. Also jump infantry can jump over gunlines. Also some enemies might be able to get multiple in a turn. So even if they get killed in shooting they still took one of your units down. It depneds on the skill of the opponent also. Lash will also kill this kind of army badly. otuflanking is also a problem they can be killed by basically anything that can infiltrate. Also you will ahve to take lots of leadership tests at leaderhsip 8 unless you tkae shodwsun which is a ton of points. I see them doing fine in capture and control but sieze ground is not good. Also toughness 4+ save is not good for anhilation.

Your drones are kill points anyway. Jump infantry can only jump over infantry if you leave enough room between your models. Remember you cannot MOVE within 1" of another figure. So if your models are 2.5 inches apart, there is no way for someone to jump between them. and even jet packs cannot go over enemy troops in the assault phase and still assault.

Out flank is an issue if you set yourself up in nice neat rows without anything on the side, or too close to a short table edge.

As far as providing cover for your enemy.... when was the last time you shot at something that DIDN'T get a 4+ save in 5th? If they aren't getting an armor save, they are getting a cover save. (at least from pulse rifles)

achancesw 02 Nov 2008 18:57

Re: The gun line
 
If I fire over my own troops the enemy gets a cover save?

Boneguard 02 Nov 2008 18:58

Re: The gun line
 
Yes they do.

They get coversave for every and any obstacle in your Line of Sight. Including your other units.


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