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New rules for Vespids
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 16:02   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default New rules for Vespids

I think every Tau player agrees that the 2 units that let us down are ethereals and vespids, vespids look really cool and have a decent backround but the rules given to them by Games Workshop are far too bad for the high points value

this is part of the background fluff found in the Tau codex:
The Vespid provide auxiliaries to Tau armies, who value them for their skill at negotiating dangerous ground at speed. They make ideal mobile reserve or flanking troops, though the Tau rely on the communion helm issued to the Strain Leaders to communicate with the Stingwings and coordinate their actions.

The Stingwings evolved in a harsh climate, and they are well equipped to prosper in their homeworld's lethal atmosphere. Chitinous wings carry them aloft upon the cold, gusting winds, and diamond-hard claws provide the means to tunnel within the rock of sky-borne islands covered in stalactites. The weapons carried by the Stingwings represent a technology unique to Vespid. Mounted at the barrel of each is a highly energetic and unstable crystal harvested from the lowest levels of the largest islands. At such depths, the atmospheric pressures create bizarre crystal formations. The Tau have provided the Stingwings with the technology to mount these weapons upon advanced and highly efficient neutron containment and projection systems, making them amongst the most deadly weapons of their type.

The Stingwings have proven themselves of great use to the Fire Caste, which values the aliens' speed and agility as well as the lethality of their weapons. The Stingwings are often integrated into Hunter Cadres that are configured as fast-moving, highly mobile forces, where they act as scouts alongside infiltrating Pathfinder Teams. Vespid have also been deployed as reserves for Cadres with a high number of Crisis Teams, their speed and maneuverability allowing them to respond to orders and react to threats with astonishing speed. It is a great compliment that the Fire Caste regards the Vespid Stingwings as skillful and reliable allies, an honor yet to be paid to the mercenary Kroot of Pech.


these are some ideas I have based on the background fluff and a quotation to back it up:

diamond-hard claws provide the means to tunnel within the rock of sky-borne islands

I believe this deserves close combat rending attacks

where they act as scouts alongside infiltrating Pathfinder Teams

the infiltration USR or at the very least the scouts USR

The Tau have provided the Stingwings with the technology to mount these weapons upon advanced and highly efficient neutron containment and projection systems, making them amongst the most deadly weapons of their type.
12" range is no-where near efficient or deadly enough and if it is so efficient, why only Assault 1, why not 2 or even 3

The Stingwings evolved in a harsh climate, and they are well equipped to prosper in their homeworld's lethal atmosphere.
so why not give them better WS, S and maybe even +1 T

admittedly if all these upgrades were to happen then there would be a raise in points but we have to admit it would be worth it
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 16:12   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: New rules for Vespids

I have been confused about exactly the same things you cover up here. Their fluff presents them so much better than their in-game value. A point raise is well worth it. You would rather buy an expensive unit that works, than a cheaper unit that, sorry about the language, sucks. Nice post, i completely agree!
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 17:20   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: New rules for Vespids

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerz

diamond-hard claws provide the means to tunnel within the rock of sky-borne islands

I believe this deserves close combat rending attacks
Yup I always thought this as well. In fact i refrence that line abit as the reason for it :P
Quote:

where they act as scouts alongside infiltrating Pathfinder Teams

the infiltration USR or at the very least the scouts USR
I'm not sure about this one... they can Deepstrike now... at the most scout. But not infiltrate. Thats Kroot terratory
Quote:
The Tau have provided the Stingwings with the technology to mount these weapons upon advanced and highly efficient neutron containment and projection systems, making them amongst the most deadly weapons of their type.
12" range is no-where near efficient or deadly enough and if it is so efficient, why only Assault 1, why not 2 or even 3
I believe either 18" or A2 both if they don't have Scout/Infiltrate
Quote:
The Stingwings evolved in a harsh climate, and they are well equipped to prosper in their homeworld's lethal atmosphere.
so why not give them better WS, S and maybe even +1 T
Arn't they already T4... which is SM toughness.... I think that thats fine. 4+ save on the other hand... thats what I'd like to see

If they are only given one of these then i feel that they might be worth their current points
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 18:19   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: New rules for Vespids

I could take the 5+ save if they had rending. For a space marine roughly, we have a fleeter, who can move, move again, shoot ap 3 weapons, then follow up with Initiative 5 attacks? hells yeah!
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 19:12   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: New rules for Vespids

yeah they are a let down, though not useless.

Stinger for a +1 Str attack in CC, or rend? Id rather the CC attack

+1 toughness or save ? Id rather the toughness since the AP value of most is better then they could rationally have as AC

longer range on gun or one higher shot per turn? More dakka

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Old 31 Oct 2008, 19:37   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: New rules for Vespids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col.Angus
yeah they are a let down, though not useless.

Stinger for a +1 Str attack in CC, or rend? Id rather the CC attack

+1 toughness or save ? Id rather the toughness since the AP value of most is better then they could rationally have as AC

longer range on gun or one higher shot per turn? More dakka
Then again, these are your marine and necron killers (str 5 ap 3 weapons? YEAH!) So, the 4+ save would be more beneficial to the Vespid than the +1 toughness, as basic necron and marine guns are AP 5.

Also, rending for the win! > ;D
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 22:59   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: New rules for Vespids

Vespids were a lot more useful before 5th ed. rules..alas, the Fleet USR is no where near as good as it used to be.
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 23:25   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: New rules for Vespids

if only fleet were made better, maybe 6" run not D6", then we would get a 24" charge effectively 12" + 6" + 6"
then all we would need is the ability to take on our enemies in close combat
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 23:33   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: New rules for Vespids

anything with an ap 3 gun, that can move, run, shoot, then assault, in most cases being first isnt necessarily bad. However thats let down by 2 attacks on the charge in most cases wounding on 5s..., however lesser foes have to compete with an initiative 5 bug that can hurt on the sweep.

:

Keep the flak armor save
Keep the gun
Keep the toughness
Keep the intiative
Keep the strength

but add this for thought

---How about an eldar like fast charge, that counts as rending, then negates to normal attack after?

for 16-18 pts rending will turn these bugjas into a mean supporting unit, which when paired with stealthsuits acts as a counter attack, and speciality enemy disruptor.

or alternatively, give them rending innately, and let the charge show why they can be so devastating. Then letting the attack numbers that fall beyond that to a small justification because you are then attacking at mediocre str 3 attacks, at 1 base?

or for the strain leader a pulse beacon that disrupts vehicles counting as crew stunned/crew shaken similar to a thunder hammer.

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Old 01 Nov 2008, 14:36   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: New rules for Vespids

Hmm what about giving them Rending as standard and Furious charge? or something like furious charge... maybe on charge they get normal amount of attack (2 on charge) and 1 additional attack that counts as a power weapon?
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