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Old 30 Oct 2008, 20:33   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Default Random Inquiries

Fellow Tau:

I guess I could put up a list and ask people to critique, but I have some more generalized questions. I play, unfortunately, what seems to be two completely different armies with wildly different hardness properties (the abilit to take a lot of dmg per model). On one side, my friend plays Space Wolves, and on another, a different friend plays Nids, so I feel like I am fighting against the entire scale of survivability... an army that squishes Nids cannot put a dent in marines.

To make things worse, I am bent on making a Farsight army.

So my question is, in fighting two such drastically different armies, how does one balance well? It seems that it is really easy to get sucked in one direction with the Tau, as the mighty firepower can be very intoxicating.

I used to think flamers were a joke, but I am looking at those now, but flamers against marines? Even with doing some basic math, I would have to hit 3 to ensure a wound, while the fusion blaster pierces for 1 (except a 50% chance in cover, which the flamer ignores), while a fusion blaster is a joke against. I mean, sure, it kills gaunts, but it is the equivalent of using the Death Star on a X-wing fighter.

I like the idea of large crisis suit teams, simply because weak units are so much more dangerous (easy points in annihilation games), and larger units focusing firepower can decimate most Troop units roundly, and since troop units are the only units that can win games in 2/3rds of the mission types, it seems that leaning to kill troops and force a draw at least, is not a terrible tactic.

I know this is a bit broad, but I like to focus more on the philosophy of how war should be conducted, and with the new missions and win conditions so cut and dry, it seems like building armies to win is easier than ever... the idea of metagamin for the objective, not fighting the army... if that makes any sense...
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 21:15   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Random Inquiries

Sorry, but I cannot offer much help, but I am in need of similar help as I have a friend that plays orks, and most guys at the local shop play some form of Space Marines. We are in the same boat here!
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 21:23   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Random Inquiries

It's actually not that hard to balance!

Crisis Suits - Fireknife: Plasma Rifle + Missile Pod

Against Marines - Plasma Rifle will take down MEQ's in droves, and TEQ's, and the Missile Pod is perfect for popping transports, Land Speeder etc, and with S7 will wound Marine Troops on a 2+, and has a high ROF.

Against Nids - Plasma Rifle is good against MC's (from range) and deadly in Rapid Fire range. The Missile Pods with the high strength will force MC's to take saves, will decimate Tyranid Warriors (AP 4) and can Insta Kill Ripper bases.

Hammerheads

Against Marines - Will pop pretty much any tank in the game with that S10 rail gun (including Land Raiders). Give it a DP and it has a 4+ Cover save, so is hard to kill. And Burst Cannons, SMS give it a high rate of fire to pour into Marine Troops unit (The Submunition will force alot of saves too).

Against Nids - S10 AP1 Railgun against MC's equals a big ouch! And the Submuntion and Burstcannons rip through Gaunts like nobodies business. plus Nid Anti Tank has suffered greatly in 5th - so very survivable.

Broadsides

Against Marines - Superb Anti Tank, will 1 shot kill pretty much anything!

Against Nids - Superb Anti MC.

Troops - Normal loadouts are good against both set ups, taking Devifish for your FW's is good against both too.

Pathfinders - Always versatile, and the Markerlight makes them a great support unit against either army.

I see you mention Flamers in your post - will work brilliantly against both if you TL them - check out the post - Absolutely Deadly Deepstrike Formation (ADDF) by macboy_geoff.

It may seem like Wolves and Nids are very different armies - but they aren't that different for the Tau. They both have the same aim, they want to get up close and personal with you and they both want to avoid Tau Firepower whenever possible- either way, you just want to shoot them!. There are plenty of things in the Tau list that will work against them both (in different ways).

Just experiment and don't be down hearted if you loose a few - its all just research for what works for you, and what works against them
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 21:34   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Random Inquiries

well I do have a friend that I play regularly against, his armies are: Grey knights, space marines, and orks. One of our favourite ways to play is we nominate a points value (1500 for example) then choose an army and make a list... in secret.
As both of us have massive armies with a good variety of units, I never quite know what I'm fighting against.

As this is the case I find I have to make my armies more balanced and can't focus on killing a single troop type. What I've found when facing a small elite marine army, than an ork hord (massive) with the same Tau list is that massed pulse riftles is key.
Space marines are formidable and tough to kill, however Tau happen to have the best infantry weapon in the game > (necrons weapons are pretty good, and I really don't want to start an argument, please bear with me :-\)
When using the pulse riftle on mass, prefrably guided by markerlights you can cut down gant swarms, obliterate space marine squads and deal some hurt on light tanks. Battle suits are good, however I don't use them very often but the options and weapon fits seem very attractive, at a price.


All I'm trying to say is the humble little firewarrior is often overlooked, and with possibly the best weapon in the game I say use it!
Of couse being bent on a farsight army you may want to include multiple units of fire warriors mounted in devilfish (4 for a 1500pts battle) and then build your suits around this, while having very few, if any armoured vehicles (hammerheads) rather rely on you suits specialised weapons.


I hope this helps,
Typhon
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 21:45   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Random Inquiries

I think that seeing as how you like crisis suits, the answer would be to take a few and kit them out with a plasma rifle and either a burst cannon or a missile pod.

The plasma for making a joke of space marine armour, and the other for taking out swarms of gribblies.
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 22:28   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Random Inquiries

While on the subject of suits, Broadsides are very useful against horde armies if you keep the SMS. Four shots, wounds 'nids on 2+, and ignores the armor saves of every unit in the Tyranid Codex save for the MCs and Zoanthropes, which is what Broadsides have railguns for ;D.
Again: Hammerheads kill both. The railgun can turn his Space Wolves Captain into a cloud of red mist, while the SMS/burst cannons murder gaunts and 'stealers.
If you take pathfinder squads, which I hope you do, try adding a rail rifle or two so as to increase their survivability against that pesky assault marine squad.
Sniper Drones...often overlooked, but priceless. Once they take out your opponent's Hive Tyrant (or any Space Marine unit), they draw literally a ton of fire. So, you set them up at the back of the table, keeping their firing lanes open, where they benefit the most from their stealth fields. I played a game once (vs. Space Marines) in which my opponent spent three turns shooting at my team of Sniper Drones with a Whirlwind, finally realizing (after I had pity on him and told him) that the highest he could roll with 2D6x3 was 36", and that his Whirlwind was about 48" away...great fun >. Use them to take out Tyranid Guard and anything else with a good armor save in the Tyranid army. For Marines...it's self explanatory.

Hope this helps...

...good luck
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 01:44   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Random Inquiries

Quote:
Originally Posted by monocleman
While on the subject of suits, Broadsides are very useful against horde armies if you keep the SMS. Four shots, wounds 'nids on 2+, and ignores the armor saves of every unit in the Tyranid Codex save for the MCs and Zoanthropes, which is what Broadsides have railguns for ;D.
Yup ;D same with Pulse Rifles
Quote:
Again: Hammerheads kill both. The railgun can turn his Space Wolves Captain into a cloud of red mist, while the SMS/burst cannons murder gaunts and 'stealers.
SUBMUNITION! it instagibs most things in a nid army... plus large blast...the size of some guant squads ya cant miss =P, and i maybe incorrect but i believe it causes Instant Death against warriors... and causes 2 wounds per every unsaved wound on ripper bases.
Quote:
If you take pathfinder squads, which I hope you do, try adding a rail rifle or two so as to increase their survivability against that pesky assault marine squad.
considerin the amount of coversaves I'd rather keep em as Markerlights... Spec if fighting nids.
Quote:
Sniper Drones...often overlooked, but priceless. Once they take out your opponent's Hive Tyrant (or any Space Marine unit), they draw literally a ton of fire. So, you set them up at the back of the table, keeping their firing lanes open, where they benefit the most from their stealth fields. I played a game once (vs. Space Marines) in which my opponent spent three turns shooting at my team of Sniper Drones with a Whirlwind, finally realizing (after I had pity on him and told him) that the highest he could roll with 2D6x3 was 36", and that his Whirlwind was about 48" away...great fun >. Use them to take out Tyranid Guard and anything else with a good armor save in the Tyranid army. For Marines...it's self explanatory.
I love Sniper Drones... but wouldn't be as good against 'nids... Against any MEQ armies they are a must tho.

I would also like to put forwad ontop of the other 3 variants mentiod (Plas+M.Pods, Plas+B.Cannon, T/L Famers) the Helios (Plas+Melta) 3 shots that make a mockery of everything Space Marines have and when at 12" cover doesn't tend to be a problem as much. And against 'nids a Sqaud of Helios makes short work of any MC

Good luck with your coming battles, hope the advice we've given helps ya
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 01:50   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Random Inquiries

If you're IDing anything Tyranids, then that player is doing something VERY wrong. Synapse protects everyone from Instant Death.
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 03:55   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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And i completly forgot about that just then!! lol so much for me being a nid player *hits self for stupidity*
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 18:03   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Random Inquiries

Thanks for all your comments... a lot of good ones.

I guess I am just trying so very hard to make something that is not meta'd (or ends up that way) against them.

I like the idea of a bunch of crisis suits and PwnWarriors, in fact, I did want to field an army of six troops with Aun'Va and an Ethereal w/ Honor Guard (I have counted roughly 60 firewarriors, assembled or in peices sop far).

This weekend I am going to order some rare earth magnets to build interchangeable Crisis suits (I am leaning torwards Fireknifes (MP+PR+MT), maybe Farsights "yojimbos" will have TL-MPs+PR+MT.

I am also sketching concepts for a custom Farsigh mod. I hate his construction, and really like the idea of giving him a polearm instead of the glowing butter knife.

My railhead is actually going to be the first thing I finish fully painting (aside from the test gun drone). I should post the color scheme at some point...
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