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Vespids, where do they fit in?
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 14:37   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Vespids, where do they fit in?

As not only a new Tau player, but a brand new player to WH40K, I am trying to absorb as much info as I can before investing (more) money into a Tau army.

One Troop that stuck out to me as looking good on paper were the Vespids, with Fleet of Wing and AP Shots, it seems like they would be a solid troop choice, and yet I don't see many armies (in fact, hardly any) electing to take any.

What am I missing?
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 14:42   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Vespids, where do they fit in?

One of the main reasons for not taking them in 4th ed' was their terrible armour saves, now in 5th, with cover saves abundant, they have become a bit more useful. But still, it doesn't take long to mow them down, especially considering the short range of their guns.
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 14:42   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vespids, where do they fit in?

Very short range and no armour save.

Those are the 2 main weaknesses of the vespid which is why noone (almost) takes them.

On the other hand the new Deepstrike rules kind of help them for a 1 shot deal; since Jump infantry may now deepstrike.
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 14:45   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vespids, where do they fit in?

Well that answers it, thanks for the help guys.
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 02:53   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vespids, where do they fit in?

Where do vespid fit in? They fit in the very bottom of your army case never to see the light of day again. That's about it honestly.

I'm never going to use them again unless they get a huge rules re-write.
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 03:38   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vespids, where do they fit in?

I don't think you guys play them right if used right they can be devastating but it take alot of practice and skill maybe i'll write up a tactic about them but I love them
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 05:26   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vespids, where do they fit in?

i agree with Artivis i have never not gotten way points back at least double from a unit of vespid when used in combintation with battle suits i wipe out entire tactial squads in one turn of shooting.
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 06:21   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Vespids, where do they fit in?

They usually don't. They just have too many problems. The range on their admittedly very nice weapon is 12" which leaves them in assault range of whoever they shot, and they aren't great close combat units. Another problem is that they are just as vulnerable to their primary target's weapon (the marine's bolter) as the marines are to their weapons, and the marines will probably be able to get in more shots (since 12" is also rapid fire range) and have a higher bs anyway.

Here's the kicker though, they're expensive. They are less effective then their usual targets, and more expensive. Use fireknife, burning eye, or helios variant crisis suits instead and you'll get much better results.
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 09:34   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Vespids, where do they fit in?

I'm also not a fan of Vespids, but I feel someone should make the case in their favour.

Vespids, as has been mentioned, are considered terrible because they are short range and fragile. Using them exposes them to more danger than they can survive. However, they do have the (rare in a Tau list) AP 3 neutron blaster, and they look cool, so I'm desperate to figure out a good way to use them.

The best option I've come up with is single-point annihilation. This is where massive force is brought to bear on a flank or exposed vanguard of your opponent's army, and the Vespids' fragility doesn't matter because everything's dead. Vespid are strong in this role both because they deny most infantry's armour saves, and because they are fast and short-ranged enough that it's feasible to 'hide' them in close combat if anything is left standing.

Vespid are often evaluated only on their shooting, and what happens once they've done it. While it's true that standing in the open within 12" of marines is a bad idea, there are four factors that are often overlooked with Vespid.

Firstly, they are skilled fliers. This means that they have a greater freedom of movement than other jump infantry, and should be able to keep inside area terrain, mitigating their terrible save somewhat. However, it can also give their target a cover save, which defeats the purpose of their weapons ><

Secondly, they can now deepstrike. This has already been mentioned, and I bring it up to point out that it allows them to deploy to any single-point annihilation on the field. Unfortunately, this means you may have to time the mont'ka around their arrival from reserve.

Thirdly, they can benefit from markerlight hits, as long as the Strain Leader is still alive. This means that the single round of shooting you're likely to get with them can actually be made to count.

Fourthly, they have initiative 5. Yes. And assault 1 weaponry. They're also Fleet, though this worked differently when they were designed, and isn't great. So they can fire their neutron blasters (or run) and then assault. If they've managed to cut down all but one or two MEqs in their target squad, swarming onto them at I5 may be enough to finish them off.

But yeah, I haven't even assembled mine (got them second-hand with a mass of other stuff; used the fact that they were in there to bargain him down in price. Them and the Ethereal). I keep meaning to put them in an army, but keep getting distracted by all the cool stuff we have that actually does a good job reliably and safely.
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 13:16   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vespids, where do they fit in?

Quote:
Them and the Ethereal).
That's the only two units that GW must work on it if they want us to play with.. For I really don't see their usefulness...
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