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Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?
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Old 29 Oct 2008, 21:27   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?

Hi guys,

I just got my hands on some pretty cheap kroots (4 boxes for the price of 1 anyone ? Yes, me !), and thought that if I was able to do so, I would re-start my first ever 40k army, the one that got me in the hobby, Tau.

Now, I haven't played Tau for a while (I was one of the first member to make use of our Trading board...) and for such a reason, I don't know what are their actual pros and cons in 5th ed (ok, I'm THAT stupid, but...)

So I thought I should ask you, other Tau players who could have experienced a Kroot heavy list in 5th, what is it like ?

I for sure don't want to use the Gun Mount one (do not remember the name...) because they remove the Infiltrating ability and cost way too much for what they can do, considering that everything else in the list can do it better. Hounds are a must IMO, and I'll use some for sure.

I also thought to build the army without any tanks. Note I did not use the word vehicle, I said tanks. It is pretty much the only Tau style I haven't tried when I had them, and I'm pretty sure it is a good way to make a stylized army.

SO, considering this, and a kinda limited budget, what would be your propositions, and more important, what do you think of that set-up ?

14 Kroots, 6 Hounds. 134 pts
To be used 4 times in the list as the standard kroot troop

That's a lot of attacks, a lot of shooting, and a lot of wounds. I know its worse than Geqs in survivability terms, but that's one of 5th ed advantage : free cover.

Them, a big core of Crisis (around 9-12)
The necessary Firewarrior squad (probably 8 strong, using converted Kroots)
Pirannahs and Broadsides, with some Sniper drones (can we have 6 units of these ?)
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 01:21   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?

Your my kind of person I have been considering a Kroot heavy army for some time - I love em

The only problems will be Coversave removing weapons ( the marines have a lot of those now ) and Anti Tank.

I have run no tank, BS heavy armies before and had some success - the main thing is to balance the static side of your list with the maneuverability of your suits, and keep things moving when you opponent expects you to deploy in the normal static gunline (things like the A.S.S on your XV88's help with this.)

5th ed helps this because of all the lovely outflank abilities, and DS is safer.

Now onto Kroot.

I would consider upping your squads slightly - 15 Kroot and 10 Kroot hounds per squad makes one hell of a hit - 75 attacks on the charge! 30 of them at Initiative 5!

I would also organise it slightly differently - if you put 2 units like the one above in as Outflankers - they will mince whatever they hit on the charge (should prove a nasty surprise).

Then I would go for 2 units of 20 Kroot (for your Gunline) - if you take a couple of Shas'o Commanders and put 1 in with each of the units that gives you LD10 Kroot - so even if you take casualties they should stay firm! Give them a Missile Pod and they more than make up for the Krootox (which you are right to avoid).

So - Strengths in 5th.
Outflank. - Lets your Kroot come on from the wings, grab objectives, destroy your opponents long range units hidden at the back. Generally make a nuisance of themselves.

Infiltrate - Same as it ever was, be careful if you do infiltrate not to move to close, with an all Kroot army you will not be able to move support up fast enough. - But as always, still a useful skill.

Coversaves. 4+ generally, 3+ in woodland, and 2+ in woodland if you go to ground (can make them very hard to dislodge from objectives. But be wary of Coversave removing weapons - especially marines now.

Obviously they still have a bolter equivalent gun which is great (for the points) and it counts as 2 close combat weapons.

Kroot Hounds.
Kroothounds are your best friends - they make the kroot very viable in CC. If you attack 10 Assult Marines with 15 Kroot, the Marines go first - hitting you on 4's so 10 hits, wounding on 3's - so probably 7 wounds - 7 dead Kroot (no saves). You would then get 24 attacks back, hitting on 4's - so 12 hits, wounding on 4's - 6 wounds - 3+ saves - so 2 dead marines. Marines win combat by 5 - so very likely your Kroot will run and get cut down.

If However you attack them with 15 Kroot and 10 KH's - your Hounds go first - 30 attacks, 15 hits, 7.5 wounds - 2-3 dead Marines. Lets say 3 :P. The Marines hack back - only 14 attacks now, 7 hits - probably 4 wounds - 4 dead Kroot. Take your casualties from the Hounds and you then have 45 attacks back from the Kroot! 22.5 hits, 11/12 Wounds - 3 + save - so 3-4 dead marines, lets say 4 :P. You have won the Combat by 3, and the Marines might run, even if they don't there are only 3 left facing 40 odd attacks next CC phase.

So always go with the Hounds!

Krootox - Not much use, and causes you to lose infiltrate and outflank - use full as a wound sink - but not really necessary and the gun is easily replicated.

Rest of the army can be filled up as you need - Suits are good, a Couple of XV88's would be useful for the anti tank! Piranhas would be OK to zip up and down the table, and maybe contest objectives towards the end of the game.

(Snipers are a maximum 3 units!).

Go for it though - UNLEASH THE HOUNDS! ;D

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Old 30 Oct 2008, 02:45   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?

A kroot based army doesn't really work all that well for a couple of reasons....

1) they dont get an armor save

2) even a small number of flamers could completely ruin your day.

They get boosts to their cover saves but weapons that ignore cover are probably the worst thing that could happen to them. Flamers ignore cover, Heavy Flamers and land raider redeemers all spell doom for kroot.

Also dont forget that sternguard veterans have ammo that can ignore cover as well. so your 2 or 3+ cover save goes right out the window.

Kroothounds are great for assault but if kroot aren't as good as a lot of people would lead you to believe. Initiative 3 makes them very vulnerable to the first round of combat. They get no save against any of the attacks and against most dedicated assault units they wont be going first. This could be devestating for your cheap unit of kroot.

I think that they work great in conjunction with other units. However, I dont think that a kroot centric army would work.
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 05:39   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?

The best unit of Kroot is the 10 man, 70 points. I say that with absolute certainty because being able to shoot is just worth it. That is how to use Kroot - stick 'em in cover, shoot, and assault when needed.

Taking four of those might make for an awesome list.

Let me see:

12 Fire Warriors, 120 points

12 Fire Warriors, 120 points

10 Kroot, 70 points

10 Kroot, 70 points

10 Kroot, 70 points

10 Kroot, 70 points

So, we've spent 520 points on Troops...

Since we're basically resigned to being static, add Broadsides...

2x Broadsides with Targetting Arrays, team leader has a drone controller and two shield drones - 195 points

2x Broadsides with Targetting Arrays, team leader has a drone controller and two shield drones, 195 points

This brings us to a total of 910 points.

Now... we could remove two Firewarriors and, for 100 points, have a Shas'el with a targeting array, CIB, Plasma Rifle, and (duh) a multi tracker.

This results in a very good 1,000 point list. To bring the list to higher point games, add battlesuits (Deathrain and Helios), an Ionhead, or Stealthsuits - all to taste! You've got a solid firebase. You are free to add a mobile element to your army to clear enemies away - and your home objective is going to be hell to remove.
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 06:29   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?

If your going to be static like that, then you might as well deploy the Broadsides in cover and use gun drones instead of shield drones.

With those spare points you should manage to fit in a few more goodies.

If it comes to terrain for Broadsides or Kroot, remember that a 4+ cover save from your own buddies is still pretty good.
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 09:55   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?

I haven't played any yet, but I have a couple of Kroot-heavy lists sitting in my crunch folder, and the one (other) thing they all have in common is vast quantities of battlesuits! Rawr!1!

Kroot are cheap enough that with two huge squads and three small grabby ones, you're left with lots of points for other stuff. I like to go overboard on this and give all my Crisis flamers (many TL!) to keep their cost down too, and field HEAPS. Most of the Troops are Kroot, and most of the elites are < 50pt Crisis, so my favourite list out of them goes fully mobile (not mech though) with carbine warriors and uses a deepstrike TL fusion team, BASS team and piranha squadron for antitank. The HQ has a positional relay and everything starts in reserve, Kroot outflanking, Crisis deepstriking.

Damn, I need to field that army... but I don't have the Kroot for it yet =(
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Old 30 Oct 2008, 20:26   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTau
The best unit of Kroot is the 10 man, 70 points. I say that with absolute certainty because being able to shoot is just worth it. That is how to use Kroot - stick 'em in cover, shoot, and assault when needed.
That is a good static 1000 point list - and would have been even better in 4th - But 5th is the age of the Kroot. They are no longer just counter assult meat shields for your more expensive troops - but a whole can infiltrating, outflanking, rapidfiring close assaulting whoopass. You just have to be more creative with them.

Seriously, Kroot have won me many a game - and since 5th they have been without doubt my men of the match every game Ive played them in.

In a recent battle against Nids (I lost 4 KP's to 5 :P) my Unit of Kroot got all 4 of my KP's - Flank Assaulting a Carnifex in the second turn (killing him). Then Wiping out a Unit of Gaunts that Counterattacked in my opponents 3rd turn. In my third turn they rapid fired a unit of 6 stealer's to death, then in my 4th turn they wiped out a squad of 3 Tyranid Warriors in CC. - They took out my Opponents entire left flank. 15 Kroot and 10 KH's, I lost quite a few of them - but the kept going! And destroyed far far more than there points worth. If the rest of my army had not treacherously failed to down the Hive Tyrant and Tyrant Guard (despite 3 turns of firing everything they had, damn fickle dice gods!)Those Kroot could have been the men of a match in a glorious victory lol.

There are several new tactics for Kroot that I have thought of/used. A key part of there use in 5th is positioning. Put your Objectives on the flanks so your Kroot can get to them, and they become a sort of objective trap for you Kroot to pounce on. If you opponent is weak in outflanking units placing you gunline near the flank can also draw him in. Positional relay is also a great help in getting a unit on early, or delaying them to spring your trap.

Anyway - First off - The KROOTBLOCK.
(NB. only works against rear armour 10)
Your enemy has a transport running down the flank, Bring your trusty cannibal space chickens on from the side and assult it - yep, I said assult. Wherever you are in base to base now you hit against rear armour, so surround the Transport (covering all the vehicle exits). If you have 15 Kroot and 10 Kroot hounds you get 75 attacks on the charge. If the vehicle has moved full speed you are hitting on 6's and then need another 6 to glance - but with 75 attacks you should get 4 - 6 rolls on the vehicle damage table. You stand a very good chance of immobilising or stunning the vehicle (so it cant move next turn) and have an OK chance if you get lucky of destroying the vehicle (multiple immobilised or weapon destroyed results).

If you get lucky and destroy it, the troops inside cant get out (your Kroot are blocking the exits) and all die

If its immobilised/stunned it cant move and the troops inside cant get out - in your next turn use some long range heavy to pop the transport and the troops inside will be unable to get out and die.

If that fails you Space Chickens can always assult it again - this time auto hitting 50 times as the vehicle hasn't moved - giving them a very real chance of finishing it off in CC.

The best part, if its destroy or immobilised your enemy's own tank will be giving your Kroot a 4+ Coversave against return fire (they may attract alot of it!) And your enemy wont be able to use template weapons against them without a chance of popping his own tank and killing the trapped occupants.

Either way - the worse that can happen is you delay the transport for 2 turns and draw a huge amount of fire away from the rest of your army - the best that can happen is you kill the transport and all inside it without losing a man (Kroot :P).


Outflank - and objectives. You positioned those objectives on the flank, the enemy are on them - the rest of there army is bearing down on you - hmmm suddenly its raining Kroot, Rapidfirng or CC'ing the enemy off the objective and taking it as your own!

Outflank - Whirlwinds, Heavy Weapons etc - safe at the back? hmmm no. A Whirlwind parked at the back, has not moved ='s 75 autohitting attacks - OK you need 6's to glance but still with 75 hits, even if you can only glance that's one dead tank!

Outflank with a Pathfinder Warfish and bring on Kroot in support - your enemy cant ignore that!

Infiltrate.

Allows you to wait till your opponent has positioned his army before you place your Krooty Troopers in the best place to counter him.

Get up close and personal fast - You can be in Rapid fire range in the 1st turn!, support them with Stealth's and Pathfinders and you are causing your opponent a major hiccup straight away! No one expects Tau to get close and personal straight away and it can ruin an entire battleplan if your enemy suddenly has to concentrate on Kroot at the beginning of the game whilst taking hits from your long range fire.

Put an objective in woodland - infiltrate your Kroot in and watch your enemy try to batter them down with a 3+ (sometimes 2+) save.

Close Combat

OK, there are lots of better dedicated close combat units out there, but with the right unit composition (ie. a whole lot of Kroot Hounds), there are very few units that Kroot cannot mince on the charge (even MEQ's and MC's). And even better, unless your opponent has experienced a well played hound heavy unit of Space Chickens before he will be complacent and underestimate the threat they pose! If a huge unit of Kroot charged a Huge unit of Ork Boyz, my money would be on the Kroot (especially with 30 attacks from your Kroot Hounds before they can fight back).

Shooting

A rapid firing, 24" Range S4 gun that counts as 2 CC weapons - whats not to like, and they can appear in the heart of your enemy's army - on the flanks - form part of your gunline (put a commander in with them and they are LD 10) - that's going to put a crimp in anyones day!

Sorry - Got a bit carried away! But Kroot are such an amazingly good unit for the points cost, an 5th ed has made playing them a totally new experience! Stop judging them on the 4th edition - because they are a whole different kettle of fish now.

They are: More Versatile (infiltrate, outflank etc) and More Survivable (Cover Saves etc) and if you play them well, have faith in there abilities, support them when needed and plan your battle with Kroot Tactics in mind - theres very little they cant do!

To my mind they are one of the best, cheapest units of infantry in the game.

Long live the mercenary Scum!

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Old 30 Oct 2008, 21:50   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?

It just occurred to me how great Kroot are at woodland missions in 5th ed. Not only can they dig in and jungle your opponent to death, but when assaulting through/into forest, they strike at normal initiative. Yesss... evil plan wurking....

Let me explain. The 'assaulting through cover' rules on page 36 specify that any unit that had to make a difficult or dangerous terrain test during its assault move fights at I1. And Kroot... don't make those tests in forest! Another 5th ed buff to Kroot. Watch your opponent SPEW when your Kroot hounds eat his Troops, with the cover they were hiding in as a tasty garnish. Bring a deck chair, the better to enjoy the show, and a spew bucket, so as not to seem unsporting.
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 20:43   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?

Not to kill the mood here or anything, but you could just play a kroot mercs army. :P
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 22:04   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot based Tau army, a viable option for 5th ed ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas Vre Sacea Kais
Not to kill the mood here or anything, but you could just play a kroot mercs army. :P
Kroot mercs (as well as every other CA thing) are no longer legal.

For fun it'd work though.
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