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To deep strike or not.....
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 01:23   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default To deep strike or not.....

I am moving away from Tau and started playing Tyranids more with the release of 5th ed. I played my first nid game the other night against tau ironically. My opponent (who lurks here occasionally) Deep struck two units of stealth squads and the Commander. They came in on the 3rd turn. one stealth suit inflicted one wound on a zoanthrope, the commander failed to kill my genestealers and the other unit killed some Termagaunts. On my turn i managed to wipe out the commander with genestealers, one stealthsuit unit with a warp blast and managed to assault the other one with my termagaunts and tied them up for the last two turns of the game.

When i play tau i do not deepstrike, I believe that deep striking mitigates the effectiveness of the taus biggest advantages, Mobility and fire power. If those units had started on the table they could have been moving to their advantage and stayed out of assault range as well as gotten off 36 more shots in two turns from the stealth suits as well as the 8 from the commander (he took a cyclic ion and a burst cannon). I feel he would have been controlling the movement of my army and would have delivered more wounds on my big beasties.

What do you guys think?

Also brings up another question, Can tau battlesuits move on the turn they deep struck, both of us seemed to remember seeing that somewhere but couldnt place where so did not play it that way. if you can point me to some documentation if so that would be great.
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 02:01   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: To deep strike or not.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkane
Also brings up another question, Can tau battlesuits move on the turn they deep struck, both of us seemed to remember seeing that somewhere but couldnt place where so did not play it that way. if you can point me to some documentation if so that would be great.
They can do their Assault phase move but not a movement phase move.

I'll leave the rest for someone else to field =)
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 02:06   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: To deep strike or not.....

I agree with darkane. Deepstriking is just too risky, and you are forced to sit there in a big circle at the end of the round, just asking for somebody to put an ordnance pie plate on your squad. With stealth suits in particular it's not worth it because they can reach most of the field with an outflank and still get their assault move.

@Joker-Venom: My rulebook and codex are not handy at the moment, but I'm pretty sure you do NOT get your assault move after a deepstrike. The Jetpack rules in the rulebook say something about "always get to move 6 inches in the assault phase even if they don't assault", but the deepstrike rule in the Tau codex, which takes precedence, says that the suits can not make an assault move in the turn they arrive. They can spread out with a run, but at the cost of shooting.
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 02:44   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: To deep strike or not.....

i dont know about the move... and dont want to get into that argument, but i do know that sometimes deepstriking helps, like to drop the russ group behind some terrain giving them a save or some such, just drop a suit behind them and pop them. also some people run mostly deepstriking armys, they can show up with a lot of there force anywhere they want, with a bit of accuracy (pathfinders). and remember the stealths cant be shooting if they are out of range
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 03:02   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: To deep strike or not.....

It's stated in the codex Crisis Suits cannot use their assault move when they deep strike.
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 03:03   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: To deep strike or not.....

No, a Deep Striking Battlesuit MAY NOT make the 6" assault move on the Turn it arrives. It's pretty clearly written in the "Stealth Armor" and "XV8 Crisis Battlesuit" entries in the bottom right corner of page 27 in the Tau Codex.
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 03:38   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: To deep strike or not.....

well at least i know we played it right. I also think that with most of the new mission designs there is little reason that a stealth suit should be out of range on the first turn. 18" is a good distance away and for a stealth suit i believe 18" is the average you can spot them. so hop em back after blasting away.
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 07:02   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: To deep strike or not.....

The average they can see you is 21" so, you decide how far is safe

about the rest of it, deep striking is too risky id prefer to outflank anyway

and yes, you cant move the turn you come down in the deep strike, although you are aloud to run in the shooting phase to spread out a bit

but why do that when u you hav guns?, you tau....
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 07:33   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: To deep strike or not.....

It very much depends on the situation and weapons load out of your Suits.

For example - deepstiking a cheap XV8 with TL FB behind an opponents 160 pt tank and blowing it to hell, or dropping the uber cheap unit of 3 XV8's with TL Flamers in front of a large Mob of Boyz, unit of gaunts etc - because it will blow them to hell.

If you are set up with MP's and Plasma rifles on a full squad, then probably best not to Deepstrike, because you are set up for long range killyness - there is no point in deepstriking.

Basically in 5th ed deepstriking is safer, and with the new LOS rules its very easy to get that reroll for your Pathfinders DF. So yes, if you have a suit with the right config, or a particular target in mind -then DS.

(However from reading your description of the battle I dont think your opponent did this, against Nids it does make more sense to stay long range unless you have a unit with a 99% chance of taking your target down) - (oh and never DS beside stealers unless you have TL Flamers anyway!)
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Old 24 Oct 2008, 06:58   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: To deep strike or not.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker-Venom
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkane
Also brings up another question, Can tau battlesuits move on the turn they deep struck, both of us seemed to remember seeing that somewhere but couldnt place where so did not play it that way. if you can point me to some documentation if so that would be great.
They can do their Assault phase move but not a movement phase move.

I'll leave the rest for someone else to field =)
No they cant, you cant assualt after deepstrike why would tau be different. You can run but thats only because you can shoot and evey army can do it.....

There is also no clear cut answer. I think what your asking is, is it a good idea to field alot of deepstrike and the answer is no, NEVER. IF your asking if its ok to deepstrike one unit the answer would be yes. But this also depends on what your deepstriking and what tools you have at the time. Remember if you deepstiking make sure some1 in your army has a Positional Relay. A team of crisis suits can be really well placed on turn 2 because of the 2+ to the reservers. Combined that with a devil fish that is dedicated to Pathfinders and you have a very good chance on putting your Suits right where they need to be.
A good example of this would be a few games ago. We were playing dawn of war i went first. I deployed all my uints and kept my Heilos in reservers. Well turn one my opponent put out one of the new landraiders with 5 temmys and his Hq. What do i do well i have them come out on a 2+ and scatter really bad then reroll the dice because of the devilfish allows me to do so and roll a hit. I then markerlight the sucker and pen it 3 times rolling 1 2 and a 4. Then the 4 turns into 5 because of AP1 i just distoryed a 250+ Tau nightmare and it cost me 201 points for some heilos as well as making the termmys have to get out and assualt my crisis suits his 2nd turn. Was this worth it.... Hell Yah could i have done something differnt most likly but i dont watn to lose a group of firewarriors on turn 3 when he assualts me and has a huge tank that i need to deal with and termmys looking at me. So is deepstriking worth it..... YES!
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