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@ bodyguards and skimmers.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 17:05   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default @ bodyguards and skimmers.

Ok i was reading something funny today in the 40k book under skimmers. For some reason it says skimmers cant be left in mid air, it says word for word "it cannot be left in mid air." This is under moving skimmers on page 71. I was playing a game and a buddy of mine says i cant shoot his carnafex because the skimmer is blocking my line of sight. I said that the tank is always flying unless i land it and it needs a base (I only have 2 and im running 3 skimmers.) So i pull out my base and he pulls this verse on me. I know when they wright the book a few rules can be taken a few ways but this one just boggles the mind. Does my skimmer block line of sight or not? I thought it did not and because im shooting under it he gets a 4+ and that's the end of that. Well any1 have an answer on that. So does a skimmer land at the end of its move?

Also on a side note. I was playing a game of annihilate. The guy killed my retinue of bodyguards from my Shas'o. He failed to kill the Shas'o buy the end of game. So does he get a killpoint for killing my 2 suits. I say no because my shas'o cant leave it but he say that he does because my shas'o is now an independent character. I can see both sides of this but in the book it reads that my retinue i take as an upgrade. Some people even tell me he has to kill my whole squad to get 2 killpoints, one for the leader and one for the retinue but has to kill my leader for both points. Some say its just one point if everything is dead. Any1 got an answer for this.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 17:44   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: @ bodyguards and skimmers.

Page 3, and bottom of page 71.

Basically, your interpretation of the skimmer's position is correct, but you really should have discussed the matter with your opponent before the game, because according to page 3, if you don't have the proper base, you can't use the model in the game.

As for your other question, I'd advise you to read the Annihilation rules on page 91.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 17:55   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: @ bodyguards and skimmers.

When you take a retinue the commander becomes an upgrade character within that unit. Kill points wise you get a Killpoint for destroying the retinue and a kill point for destroying the commander. So, if you kill both you get 2 KP's, if you kill just the retinue you get 1 KP.

Skimmer wise - a skimmer has to stay on its flying base now, unless its destroyed or immobilised. Tau Skimmers do have the option of landing if they have not moved that turn (thanks to landing gear). But otherwise they are always on the flying base.
We now play with true LOS, so a skimmer will only block line of site if you actually (physically) can not see the model behind it (from a models eye view, this is relevant wether it is skimming or otherwise. The only difference is that if you shoot over (or under) any unit the model you target will receive a cover save 4+. Unless its a MC or Tank, in which case the 50 percent of the base rule kicks in or in the case of a normal unit, less than 50 percent of the unit are actually in cover).

The part on page 71 saying it cannot be left in midair only refers to the fact that you must be able to place your tank down (on its flying base) on the table at the end of your movement phase, if there is not room to place the base the tank cannot end its move there.

so 1 killpoint for the commander
1 killpoint for the retinue

And true LOS for shooting, if your model can see it - it can shoot at it (if its in range :P).
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 19:24   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: @ bodyguards and skimmers.

Ok thats what i was trying to tell him. As for the retinue iv read it and i still think if you kill the retinue it should not count for a kill point. At this rate if i use a seeker missile it should give him a kill point because he killed my missile and it was only an upgrade like a retinue. But oh well what ever.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 20:09   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: @ bodyguards and skimmers.

The retinue isn't an "upgrade" - its a unit, and the character becomes an upgrade character within that unit. So they get a KP for killing the unit (the bodyguards) and a KP for killing the HQ (your commander). If they only kill the Bodyguards they only get 1 KP. Its in the Killpoints section of your Rulebook.

In a way its exactly the same if your Commander joins another unit, they would get a KP for the unit, then a KP for the Commander. The only difference is that if you buy a retinue your Commander loses his IC status (making him harder to target, and fighting as part of that unit) until the Retinue is destroyed.

If however you are not talking about a Bodyguard retinue, but about Drones - They are an upgrade and do not work the same way - A Commander with Drones remains an independent character and destroying the drones would not give an extra killpoint - you would just get 1 KP for the commander and his drones, as they count as an IC with upgrades, not a separate unit.

You cannot compare 2 Crisis suit Bodyguards to a Seeker Missile, they are 2 models on the field - whereas the Seeker missile is ammunition, that can be purchased as a vehicle upgrade.

It is fair.

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Old 19 Oct 2008, 02:10   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: @ bodyguards and skimmers.

Read page 91 again >< It's pretty clear on how much a retinue is worth.
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Old 19 Oct 2008, 03:02   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: @ bodyguards and skimmers.

I still think it's a load of crap about the retinue and the commander counting as 2 seperate kill points. They're not only taken as a single choice but they also operate as a single unit in all ways. I understand that the commander counts as an independent character once the retinue is dead but you cant take the retinue without the commander. It's kind of ridiculous to me.
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Old 19 Oct 2008, 03:31   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: @ bodyguards and skimmers.

Not really, its no different to an independant character joining a unit. If the unit he is with is killed - thats 1kp, if you then kill him, thats 2 kp.

The retinue are a "Unit" - one that you normally buy seperate from your force organisation chart (as it comes with the HQ) - but still a unit none the less.

I can see why some Tau players dont like it - after all generally we get to take 2 crisis suits as a Bodyguard, which makes 2KP for a unit of 3 models quite easy to achieve. However, some Armies can have huge retinues and it seems alot fairer if you are blasting through 9 or 10 models - then killing the army HQ.

From a Tau Point of you, if you were stupi....er....I mean brave enough to take an Ethereal, and give him a Honour Guard of 12 Vet Firewarriors - You would have a unit of 12 FW (retinue) and a HQ. - This would be worth 2 KPts - one for the 12 FW and one for the HQ.

Now, if you just moved your Ethereal into a unit of 12 normal FW, and joined them, the unit is still worth 2KPts - This would be worth 2 KPts - one for the 12 FW and one for the HQ.

The only difference really is the Commanders retunue are not scoring, and the commander cant be singled out in CC/Shooting as he becomes an Ugrade Character.

You could also look at Farsight and his seven Samurai. 7 Crisis Bodyguards. You can field a Farsight unit with drones that costs over 1000pts in your army list, and has 22 models in it (7 suits, 14 drones, 1 HQ) - This unit (fothe same reason) is worth only 2 KPpts - But in order to get them your enemy has to kill 21 models, then your HQ.

I think this is a fair rule, maybe not great for Tau with 2 BG suits, but fair. Especially when you look at some of the retinues available to some army lists. And its no different to a IC joing a unit, (apart from you get your extra unit from outside the FOC chart).
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