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how do i counter harlequins?
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 05:07   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default how do i counter harlequins?

my friend who plays eldar and i play all the time and he started loading his harlequin team in a falcon to pretty much move across the entire table in one turn with his 36 inches and then unloading the harlequin to assault me. how do i counter these things?
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 06:45   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: how do i counter harlequins?

I'm not really an expert on Eldar, but I'm pretty sure you can't unload the same turn you move 36". Could be wrong about that one....anyway, just shoot down his Falcon or immobilize it, we're tau---we're good at that stuff. When the harlequins pile out, vape 'em with fire warriors. 5+ Invulnerable saves are kind of a joke for such expensive units.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 07:02   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: how do i counter harlequins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoogK
my friend who plays eldar and i play all the time and he started loading his harlequin team in a falcon to pretty much move across the entire table in one turn with his 36 inches and then unloading the harlequin to assault me. how do i counter these things?
1. Vehicles may Embark or Disembark troops in any given turn, but never both in the same turn.
2. A Vehicle cannot Embark or Disembark passengers at all if it is going to move faster than Cruising Speed (over 12")

I think it's pretty clear your friend is cheating if he picks up the harlies, uses star engines, then disembarks them in the same turn. Especially if he assaults with them in that turn. You can only assault out of a vehicle that moved if it is open topped.

In addition, harlequins are weak against close range pulse fire, or SMS fire, and are not fearless…
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 07:07   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: how do i counter harlequins?

shoot the tank :P falcons are survivable, but they are not unloading after 36 inch moves. So even if he goes first you get a round to light him up. Tau are one of the few armies that are able to drop a falcon. Use that to your advantage. a rail gun gets the +1 on the chart for being ap 1. one in 8 shots will shut it down at minimum.

This isn't a given as saracen says however, as I'm sure you've discovered. Holo fields force you to roll two rolls and take the worst of the two, spirit stones negate stunned results, and even if you imobilize them they just make a forced landing.

If they use the star engines (allows the extra 12" movement) they cannot embark or disembark. Also he can't deploy the harlies in the falcon. so the BEST he could do:
round1) load harlies into serpent, move 12 inches.
round 2) disembark and assault OR move further 12", dismbark and not assault, or just move up to 36 inches.
round 3) the first round his troops could actually assault you.


If it gets to you, utilize your detachable gun drones. Use them to screen your bigger units, to prevent the harlies from assaulting you. You can no longer consolidate into assault, so ironicly, you want to make sure that whatever they assault they wipe out on their turn, or win resoundingly enough to route your troop. That way you can shoot them. They only have 5+ saves. So even a round of pulse rifles will end their existance if you can get a turn to fire.

Just to reiterate, if your opponent is moving a falcon 36 inches and then disembarking, he's cheating. If he's moving it more than 12" and putting models in, or taking models out he's cheating. He also cannot assault in after disembarking, if the vehicle moved that turn even just a pivot in place.


Lastly, there is a relatively easy way to get a round of fire at the harlies. When that big 'ole Tank rolls up on your squads, assault the rear with something. Anything. Block the exit. If the entire squad cannot disembark within 2 inches of the single falcon access point, then all they can do is either a) emergency disembark (no movement no assault) or the vehicle can move and then they can disembark (again no movement no assault)

Hope this helps!


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Old 08 Oct 2008, 07:22   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: how do i counter harlequins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emmagine
shoot the tank :P falcons are survivable, but they are not unloading after 36 inch moves. So even if he goes first you get a round to light him up. Tau are one of the few armies that are able to drop a falcon. Use that to your advantage. a rail gun gets the +1 on the chart for being ap 1. one in 8 shots will shut it down at minimum.

This isn't a given as saracen says however, as I'm sure you've discovered. Holo fields force you to roll two rolls and take the worst of the two, spirit stones negate stunned results, and even if you imobilize them they just make a forced landing.

If they use the star engines (allows the extra 12" movement) they cannot embark or disembark. Also he can't deploy the harlies in the falcon. so the BEST he could do:
round1) load harlies into serpent, move 12 inches.
round 2) disembark and assault OR move further 12", dismbark and not assault, or just move up to 36 inches.
round 3) the first round his troops could actually assault you.


If it gets to you, utilize your detachable gun drones. Use them to screen your bigger units, to prevent the harlies from assaulting you. You can no longer consolidate into assault, so ironicly, you want to make sure that whatever they assault they wipe out on their turn, or win resoundingly enough to route your troop. That way you can shoot them. They only have 5+ saves. So even a round of pulse rifles will end their existance if you can get a turn to fire.

Just to reiterate, if your opponent is moving a falcon 36 inches and then disembarking, he's cheating. If he's moving it more than 12" and putting models in, or taking models out he's cheating. He also cannot assault in after disembarking, if the vehicle moved that turn even just a pivot in place.


Lastly, there is a relatively easy way to get a round of fire at the harlies. When that big 'ole Tank rolls up on your squads, assault the rear with something. Anything. Block the exit. If the entire squad cannot disembark within 2 inches of the single falcon access point, then all they can do is either a) emergency disembark (no movement no assault) or the vehicle can move and then they can disembark (again no movement no assault)

Hope this helps!

Thanks, big help. I'm sorry if I didn't specify the scenario. He is moving the 36 inches and then on the second turn he is disembarking. Quick follow up question: so if the falcon moves its full out of 24 inches or 36 it gets an invulnerable save? Or is that a cover save? Thanks again.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 07:47   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: how do i counter harlequins?

I believe it is an invulnerable save.

That still gives you 1-2 turns to shoot it,

and if you fail that, you can still assault the rear with a squad to block the exit preventing him from assaulting you with them on his 2nd turn.

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Old 08 Oct 2008, 08:03   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: how do i counter harlequins?

great advice. i'll try it next game. i guess im just concerned about the harlequin's veil of tears. i feel like it would be difficult to get into the range where i would be able to hit him and he won't be able to assault me.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 08:17   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: how do i counter harlequins?

When I first started playing about a year ago, I used to take a severe beating from harlequins. With their veil of tears it's almost impossible to shoot them at a safe distance, and it's suicide for an infantry squad to get close enough to rapid fire. RF fire warriors can kill them, but my most reliable counter to the harlequins was a warfish or two. They had a much harder time killing the vehicle, so I wasn't as worried about closing to point-blank range and unloading 7 strength 5 shots.

I haven't faced them in 5th edition yet, but I expect vehicles to work almost as well. Warfish don't provide quite as much mobile firepower as they used to, and their armor is weaker against assault, but rending isn't as powerful against vehicles, so I still think the warfish is a good counter. The other thing you can do is force the harlies to kill a cheap squad like kroot first. If they wipe it out in one round (likely) then they are force to stand there in the open while your fire warriors pulse-rifle them into tiny pieces.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 08:18   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: how do i counter harlequins?

you pretty much can't :P the only way you're going to get them into shooting range without getting assaulted the next turn, will be if:
a) they are pinned
b) they disembarked after their transport moved.
c) they have to emergency disembark.

but they are weak. and they are a small enough squad to fit in a falcon, so you don't need to land too many wounds. Even a railhead pie plate can tear them up.

It doesn't sound like he's giving you much choice but to get close to them, so it becomes kill or be killed.

Look on the plus side: He's serving up a good chunk of his armies points to you on a silver platter, separated from the rest of his army... where your fire warrior squads can all get a full round of rapid shots in on them if need be!

There is no need to sacrifice a squad like stated above, just block their exit.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 08:30   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: how do i counter harlequins?

if im trying to use my ordinance from the railhead on the harlequins do i still need to roll the 2D6 x 2 because of their veil of tears?

I know that with our stealth suits if you are trying to shoot an ordinance at them they have to roll 3D6 as opposed to the 2D6 when they throw their scatter dice.

if i don't have to roll for the veil of tears from the ordinance, i think i would just try to go first and rain on the harlequins before they can embark onto the falcon.
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