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Piranha's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 19:49   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Piranha's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.

This is an interesting tactic thrown up by the new vehicle assault rules in 5th ed. When you attack a vehicle squadron now you attack the squadron "As a Whole". This means you now assult every Vehicle in the squadron - even if you are not in base to base contact with the other vehicles. Basically the rules have been changed so they are now the same as shooting at a squadron.

Flechette dischargers - whenever you assult a vehicle with Flechette dischargers you are wounded on a 4 plus (before combat starts). If you equip a unit of Piranhas (5 piranhas) with Flechette Dischargers then conceivably every Piranha in the unit will unleash hell - this tactic does not seem so overpowered if say, a Hive Tyrant assaults your unit, he can conceivably hit and penetrate/destroy your entire squadron even if only engaging one model. The FD's would wound him 5 times before combat (on a 4 plus) - with saves allowed. Which means he might take a wound or 2 before decimating your squadron.

However, if say - 30 Orks attack your piranha's then you would get 150 dice BEFORE combat (5 dice per assaulting model), as Orks only have a 6 plus save - that's enough to wipe out the unit 3 times before they even strike a blow in combat! This sounds insane - and perhaps a little unfair, but is it any less fair than an assaulting unit being able to destroy all of your Piranhas in one turn?

In 4th edition when you attacked a squadron in hand to hand combat you assaulted just the vehicle you were in base to base with. So if you attacked a squadron of 5 Piranhas with FD's with 30 Orks, you would get 30 dice. If the Orks destroyed the Piranha, and then next turn assaulted the next Piranha in the squadron they would again take the 30 hits from the squadrons Flechette Discharger. So each vehicle they assaulted would do its 30 dice (if being assaulted by 30 models, if only 1 Ork attacked it would only do 1 dice). So over 5 turns of continuous assult the 30 Orks would take 160 dice (if assaulting one piranha each turn, and no Orks dieing). In 5th ed, as you assult all the models in the squadron at the same time the 150 dice go off at once). Basically its exactly the same as 4th ed, but compressed into 1 turn, instead of 5.

This is truly awesome against Horde armies - especially with upgrades such as the Disruption Pod making them harder to destroy with shooting. And should cause a nasty shock to anyone happily assaulting your Piranhas (rear armour 10) with a large unit - suddenly the battle is not quite as onesided as they thought it was!

If you read the vehicle assult rules/Flechette rules this seems a very valid tactic - and (for what its worth) I did phone Games Workshop world to ask them for a ruling and the guy did say that it would happen this way in 5th (not that this means that much :P).

I don't know what you guys think - but it seems a likely to me!
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 19:59   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Pirahana's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.

This sounds to me like I'm getting some piranhas.
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 20:10   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pirahana's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.

So what would we call this diabolical and hideously Greater Good tactic?

The Metalstorm rush?

While it would be of great glee to use, sadly you'd probably only *ever* catch your opponent once with it! But oh, the glory...!

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Old 01 Oct 2008, 20:21   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Pirahana's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.

I think this would be a great tactic, it was brought up a bit ago about 5 pages deep, but here is the link, I I will be trying it out tonight but with only 2 pirahana's, we shall see how it goes.


http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=72175.0

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Old 01 Oct 2008, 20:24   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pirahana's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.

I keep seeing this strategy discussed, and I keep disagreeing with it. As much as I would like it to be true, I strongly believe it isn't. A model assaulting the piranha squadron is only required to be in B2B contact with one piranha, so it should only take damage from one set of flechette launchers. It's a stretch to try to make the rules say every flechette launcher gets a hit on every model, and it just doesn't make sense for it to work that way. I vote that it works just like in 4th: you roll a wound for every model involved in the assault, but only one roll per model regardless of how many piranhas are in the squad.
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 20:27   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pirahana's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.

You could easily run a cheap unit of Piranhas instead of some Crisis suits against horde armies.
A Piranha with Disruption Pod, Burst Cannon and Flechette Discharger comes in at a budget 70 points. For each unit of 2+ Crisis Suits, or fully upgraded tank you remove from your list, you can add 2 of these budget beauties. The burst cannon is also very good for hordes.

And we need a name for this new tactic, as we already have the 'feeding frenzy' for surrounding transports and destroying the unit inside. I propose 'Steel Thunder' or 'Iron Curtain', or maybe 'Weed-whacker'.

[hr]

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Originally Posted by knightperson
I keep seeing this strategy discussed, and I keep disagreeing with it. As much as I would like it to be true, I strongly believe it isn't. A model assaulting the piranha squadron is only required to be in B2B contact with one piranha, so it should only take damage from one set of flechette launchers. It's a stretch to try to make the rules say every flechette launcher gets a hit on every model, and it just doesn't make sense for it to work that way. I vote that it works just like in 4th: you roll a wound for every model involved in the assault, but only one roll per model regardless of how many piranhas are in the squad.
Yes, but then what offsets the fact that they can destroy the entire squadron just being in B2B with one model?
If they can hit every vehicle in the squadron in CC, then every vehicle, it must be assumed, has an equal chance of hitting them back (regardless of whether that's possible or actually does anything)
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 20:30   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Pirahana's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.

Knight, the main thing is that all 5 vehicles are attacked in a squad. The requirement for the flechettle launchers is that any model attacking the vehicle in close combat, it activates. The rules make it clear that when one vehicle is attacked in close combat, all of them are. It doesn't matter which one.
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 21:23   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Pirahana's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.

My question is, how do you get the opponent to actually assault your piranhas?

Against say, an assaulty horde army like orks, couldn't the opponent just choose to push their way past the piranhas and into your gunline? Even though vehicles are now hit in the rear when in CC, they still can't be locked in combat unless they are walkers.

I guess flechette launchers makes skimmer walling effective again, but at face value this tactic seems a bit too situational to be used regularly. Thoughts?
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 21:34   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pirahana's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floobosaurus
I guess flechette launchers makes skimmer walling effective again, but at face value this tactic seems a bit too situational to be used regularly. Thoughts?
I'm actually in agreement here. While it useful in some situations, most armies will just hang back for a turn and pepper you with heavy anti-infantry/anti-tank fire and be done with it.
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 22:03   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Pirahana's, Flechettes, and a whole world of pain.

If you can force your opponent to move through a bottleneck this tactic becomes golden.

Another option would be to have the piranhas line up next to each other, forming a large fan, forcing your opponent to go through them first. But even then your opponent is still equally likely to shoot them down.
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