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Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?
View Poll Results: Do Vehicle Gun Drones give up Kill Points in Annihilation?
Yes. They count as independent units. 8 32.00%
Yes, but I don't agree with the codex. 6 24.00%
Neutral, I require an FAQ to believe it 4 16.00%
No. I don't think they should, even though the codex disagrees with me. 3 12.00%
No, it doesn't seem right. 4 16.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 18 Sep 2008, 08:04   #1 (permalink)
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Default Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?

Hey guys i just had a game vs Tau and it was an annihilation mission w/spearhead deployment, and I came across something interesting. Because in annihilation every unit gives up a kill point. The Tau vehicles that have gun drones give up 2 kill points?! When I destroyed the vehicle the gun drone rules for tau vehicles state that they are treated as passengers, so they disembark and act as a gun drone squadron. It also says that they may disembark during the tau player's movement phase and count as an independent unit that counts as a gun squadron. This is all in page 30 of the Tau codex, and the Tau FAQ says nothing about them not counting as a separate unit for kill point purposes.

During the game this wasn't an issue of big importance I was going to win regardless. but for future reference I pointed out that if they are an independent unit that they do in fact give up a kill point if killed. My friend at first claimed that no, they don't count as a unit they count as being part of the vehicle unit but upon checking the codex and reading that it clearly states they are independent units from the vehicle once disembarked, it was obvious to me that they do infact give up kill points separate from the kill points given by the vehicle they come aboard in.

So what do the rest of you say? Page 30 of the Tau Codex is where you want to look to read the rules on vehicle equipped Gun Drones. In the game we played Nids vs Tau, here are our lists. as you can see he had 2 devilfishes which were the ones who gave up gun drones once destroyed.


This was my list:
HQ:
1 Hive Tyrant
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Winged; Twin-linked Devourer (x2); Warp Field

1 Hive Tyrant
Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Extended Carapace +1 Save; Flesh Hooks; Toxic Miasma; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Scything Talons (x1); Venom Cannon;

Elite:
3 Carnifex
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Flesh Hooks; Twin-linked Devourer (x2)


Troops:
40 Gaunt Brood
Spinefists

Fast Attack:
12 Gargoyles

3 Ravener
Rending Claws; Scything Talons (x1)

Heavy Support:
1 Carnifex
Acid Maw; Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Bonded Exoskeleton; Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Extended Carapace +1 Save; Regenerate; Reinforced Chitin; Spine Banks; Tail Weapon - Scythe; Toxic Miasma; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Scything Talons (x1); Venom Cannon

2 Carnifex
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Extended Carapace +1 Save; Flesh Hooks; Reinforced Chitin; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon

Total Roster Cost: 1850

and my opponent's list was:
HQ:
1 Commander Shas'el
Fusion Blaster; Hard-wired Target Lock; Crisis Bodyguard; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker
2 Crisis Bodyguard
Fusion Blaster; Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Plasma Rifle; Targeting Array

Elite:
5 Stealthsuits
Burst Cannon (x5)
1 Team Leader
Bonding Knife; Burst Cannon

1 Crisis Battlesuit
Team Leader; Crisis Battlesuit; Bonding Knife; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker
2 Crisis Battlesuit
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker

Troops:
10 Kroot Carnivore Squad
Add Kroot Hounds; Kroot Rifle (x10)
2 Kroot Hounds @ [12] Pts

9 Fire Warrior
Pulse Rifle (x9)

9 Fire Warrior
Pulse Rifle (x9)

8 Fire Warrior
Pulse Rifle (x8)

1 Devilfish
Burst Cannon; Gun Drones; Landing Gear
2 Gun Drones

9 Fire Warrior
Pulse Rifle (x9)

Fast Attack:
5 Pathfinder
Markerlight (x3); Pulse Carbine (x3); Rail Rifle and Target Lock (x2)

1 Devilfish
Burst Cannon; Gun Drones; Landing Gear; Marker Beacon
2 Gun Drones
Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

Heavy Support:
2 Hammerhead Gunships
Railgun; Seeker Missle (x2); Two Burst Cannons; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Targeting Array

1 Hammerhead Gunship
Railgun; Seeker Missle (x2); Smart Missile System; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Targeting Array


Total Roster Cost: 1849
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 08:12   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?

The way it is currently worded, they do. Which is a crock of bantha poodoo. They shouldn't. It needs to be fixed fast, otherwise the first move everyone will make from now on will be to disembark all thier drones and hide them in the back corner for the entire game
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 08:35   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?

I'm neutral, as they really need to FAQ the whole issue, along with several others.

I personally say that if they can contest and objective they give KP, otherwise they don't.
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 08:45   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?

Gun drones do give KP's and Can contest an objective in 5th Edition. So it's a double edged sword per se.
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 08:45   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
I'm neutral, as they really need to FAQ the whole issue, along with several others.

I personally say that if they can contest and objective they give KP, otherwise they don't.
only troops contest objectives, and not all devilfishes are meant for troops like in the case of pathfinders. But yeah I do agree, I don't really see why the gun drone squadron from a fire warrior transport shouldn't be able to contest objectives since it came from the troops FOC but the pathfinders devilfish is different.

Either way according to the codex these suckers all give up kill points i'm glad to see that at least we all agree that the raw says they do. Maybe an updated FAQ will change this, until then the golden rule is to follow whatever the raw says right?

In all fairness Tyranids have a similar issue with Biovores. If the shot misses the spore mines launched form a unit and move around waiting to get killed. Which is kind of dumb since they don't even count as living things, they are just floating bombs drifting in the air and explode on command. But yet if an enemy shoots it, the raw says he'd gain a kill point from it. Kinda lame..
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 09:00   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?

ANY model contest objectives.Troops can hold and claim obj.(and contest also)
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 09:34   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaso Kellenar
ANY model contest objectives.Troops can hold and claim obj.(and contest also)
sorry that's what i meant, only troops can claim objectives. Thus the pathfinder drones woudln't be able to since they would count as a fast attack choice.
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 09:54   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?

So... Gundrones from a Devilfish bought by a Firewarrior team can capture objectives? After all, they came from a fish that occupies the troop slot.
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 11:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?

no because it says they form a unit just as if they were a fast attack option
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 18:07   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nids vs Tau 1850. Gun Drones give kill points? yes or no?

Since this thread appears in multiple places I'll post the same response in both.

---

OK, I called Jeff the Rulz Guy at the GW hotline because this subject has come up several times before. He said that GW has not taken a specific position on dismounted drones and kill points. Then he said that there is a good argument for both 1 and 2 KPs but that he believes that since the 5th Ed Tau FAQ still contains a reference to dismounted drones not effecting the victory points a vehicle gives up, that the intent is that dismounted drones should not grant additional kill points.
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