Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

New Tactics for a New Age
Reply
Old 04 Sep 2008, 15:13   #1 (permalink)
Nox
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,111
Default New Tactics for a New Age

So Iíve heard that the new SM Codex adds a lot of new stuff, but a couple of things in particular have me wondering what Tau players are going to do to cover their bases against this new firepower. First, SM Vets can now get AP3 ammo, this is a killer vs our suits. Second, Sterguard ammo ignores cover saves which cuts the heart out of JSJ tactics as it doesn't matter if we move to cover or not.

So what do we do? Is it now necessary to use Shield Generators on all of our suits? How do you plan to adapt to this?
Nox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Sep 2008, 15:28   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 653
Default Re: New Tactics for a New Age

I also heard the Stormshield buff to become basically a 4+ Invul for everything, like our SGs. :-\

Makes you wanna scream CURSE YOU SPACE MARINES!!! >

Unless we get completely blocking terrain, shields or spamming cheaper suicidal suits maybe our way forward.
__________________

Hail to the God-Emperor, Baby!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khathecleric
My love runs her Sisters with melta, so it does get rather hot for my suits when she's around. :P
I just gotta comment that I LOVE all the inuendo in this statement right here... hehe
Quote:
Originally Posted by GyrfalconXV25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by GyrfalconXV25
Is that penetration only for vehicles?
What else would you like to penetrate?
Sisters of battle for starters.....
Khathecleric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Sep 2008, 15:32   #3 (permalink)
Nox
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,111
Default Re: New Tactics for a New Age

The problem with Shields on everything is that it's so damned expensive but I guess we'll have to live with the cost. The problem with spamming suicide units is that none of our units are really cheap enough to be effective at this. (Ignoring the fact that it is totally unfluffy anyway.)
Nox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Sep 2008, 15:38   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sayville, NY
Posts: 722
Send a message via AIM to xShaperx
Default Re: New Tactics for a New Age

I wouldn't waste the points on shield generators, even with the new marine codex of unfathomable broken might. As ever, massed Plasma and Rail Rifle fire. The marines have gotten more deadly, yes, but we still are equipped with the tools to take them out. Storm Shields for CC Terminators, you just need to kite them around, and as for the AP3 Bolters? I hear they get hot, for one, and for two...they're on marines that are no less survivable than any regular marines. Counter AP3 Bolters with Plasma and Rail Rifles, as always.

We'll get through this just fine, I'm unafraid of the new dex.
__________________
I love the smell of promethium in the morning

Shas'ui Kel'shan Mont'au Mal'caor: The Terror Spider of Kel'shan

www.myspace.com/nathanhotdog
xShaperx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Sep 2008, 17:06   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Diego, California, North America, Earth
Posts: 1,069
Send a message via AIM to Unusualsuspect Send a message via MSN to Unusualsuspect
Default Re: New Tactics for a New Age

Personally, the change to the Storm Sheild has me extremely worried.

Isn't it now a 3+ invulnerable save across the board? Doesn't this basically halve our ability to kill those thing with the few guns we have that are dedicated to killing Terminators? Pulse fire is unreliable. Railguns become a joke...

And they didn't even change the price, as far as I know. Mmmmm, balanced.
__________________
I you private dancer.
Unusualsuspect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Sep 2008, 19:55   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Somewhereshire
Posts: 6,214
Send a message via MSN to Ravager
Default Re: New Tactics for a New Age

Not sure on that last, but pretty much every marine model is more expensive now.
So, you're actually going to see less marines at a given point level, especially if they start taking the more powerful stuff. And the guys who get AP 3 bolters are north of 20 points, so each one you take out will hurt.

Storm shields are 3+ across the board, but hey, massed fire has worked in the past. Okay, so they'll use their 2+ armour agains the pulse fire, but it means we can use railguns, plasma, fusion, etc elsewhere. Like on those guys with AP 3 bolters, or expensive new tanks, orÖ you get the idea.

In addition, it seems like their characters lost a little bit in the new edition. Apparently only a company commander gets 3 wounds. Captains, Chappy's, Libby's et al, have been reduced to a 2 wound maximum. I need to have a closer look at the 'dex, but I'm pretty sure we can find counters for everything in there.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrBonesaw
"Drop the shovel, and stand back from the keyboard!"


We have done the impossible... and that makes us mighty.
Firefly is pretty much made of Awesome, Funny, and Aww. Sometimes simultaneously. We'd better stop before we quote the entire script.
Ėtvtropes.org
Ravager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Sep 2008, 20:25   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,182
Send a message via AIM to Jedibean
Default Re: New Tactics for a New Age

Alright... I think you guys are over reacting to some incomplete info. I've basically seen the majority of the new codex and it's really not as big of a deal as you're making it. Lemme help you out.

AP3 bolters and bolters that ignore cover are just a couple effects that the vets can do. They can also have bolters with a 30 inch range. They can only use 1 of these abilities at a time though and none of them are a huge deal for us Tau and here's why.

AP3 bolters mean very little to fire warriors if you have then in decent cover. They'll get a cover save equal to their armor anyway. Also, they're just bolters. If they move then they can only fire 12" anyway. With plasma rifles and missile pods it should be easy enough to stay out of their range anyway.

Bolters that ignore cover saves are not a problem for anything but kroot and vespid (that I don't take anyway). If you run kroot heavy then you're in trouble but for anything else then they're not a problem. Fire warriors, crisis suits and stealth suits will be getting they're regular armor save anyway.

30" range bolters are also not that big of a deal for the Tau either. They don't really do much damage to suits or fire warriors and they can't do anything to vehicles.

Stormshields do grant a 3+ invulnerable save but only assault terminators can take them. These guys used to get slaughterd by plasma rifles anyway and they would only get a 5+ invulnerable save. Considering they're cost with no ability to shoot back they need some extra protection. Basically they're taking a unit that was almost completely invalid and they're giving it a boost. I don't see a problem with this.

The thing we should be worried about is the fact that vanguard veterans will be able to deepstrike and assault in the same turn. Not all assault marines. Just this particular type. It's going to be brutal. There is even a character that allows them to take vanguard vets as troops. The only thing that comforts me is the fact that these units will be very expensive in points so we won't see many of them hopefully.
Jedibean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Sep 2008, 20:46   #8 (permalink)
Nox
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,111
Default Re: New Tactics for a New Age

I didnít know about the bolters with a 30 inch range. Iím not so sure you shouldnít be worried about that just a much as the Vanguard Vets. Think about it, with their heavy weapon options the SM units can hit us harder at a longer range to begin with. (Some where in the past I remember Wargamer doing a death by range breakdown for FWs vs Marines that talked about this.) Now with the 30 inch option they can still hit our FWs with more firepower than we can throw back, in what was the sweat spot inside 30 where we used to be able to out shoot them. Combine this with the fact that they have a better BS and save than our FWs and our basic infantry will get seriously out shot. Also, donít forget that when you say theyíre ďjust boltersĒ and if they move their range drops to 12, that our range drops to 12 as well.

Now I know whatís coming, the obligatory Ďjust hit them with suitsí line. But as I have said before, suits are much more fragile than they were in 4th and something as simple as a flurry of AP3 bolt rounds from a single squad can now wipe out a 200 pt suit team in a round. Iím not saying that SM canít be beat now; Iím just saying that it looks like itís going to be a hell of a lot harder to do.
Nox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Sep 2008, 21:27   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Diego, California, North America, Earth
Posts: 1,069
Send a message via AIM to Unusualsuspect Send a message via MSN to Unusualsuspect
Default Re: New Tactics for a New Age

Are you sure only Assault Terminators can take Storm Shields? The rumors I've seen has them as an option for quite a few units.

True, they are slow... but unless you're entirely mech, there are limits to the extent that you can avoid them AND still keep, say, your FWs/suits in cover.

The Deepstriking assaulters also worries me, simply because it's a "I'm going to kill one of your units, no matter what you do, without you able to do much more than sigh."

Concerning the 30" range... based entirely on averages, assuming 20 points for these super-bolter vets-on-steroids, such a squad (6 for comparative purposes) will kill (6 shots x 2/3 hit x 2/3 wound x 1/2 save) 4/3 Fire Warriors, while an equivalent FW force will kill (12 shots x 1/2 hit x2/3 wound x1/3 save) 4/3 marines.

While Wargamer was proabably correct for regular tactical squads vs FWs... the increased cost of the vet squad actually makes it a more favorable exchange for the Tau. Though ultimately the SM might still win in a straight-out shootout - 1 failed save (and ld 7 isn't particularly good, let's be honest) can easily lead to a wiped-out FWs.
__________________
I you private dancer.
Unusualsuspect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Sep 2008, 21:37   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 262
Default Re: New Tactics for a New Age

I don't think there is anything to worry about. People on the B + C are going crazy over the new additions, but it's not as dangerous as it appears. First of all the stern and vanguard are elite units and people will have a maximum of 1-2 units. Since they are not used to the high points cost like us Blood Angel they will not take them in most of their games. They rather have dreadnoughts and/or terminators. The new marines will drop just as fast as the old marines. Don't forget Tau got the biggest advantage in this edition. And that's that we have clear lines of sight across most of the table now. That is a bigger threat then a couple new toys for vanilla marines. >
__________________
I Am Ruin

I am Legion is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tau 'Tactics Videos' with questionable 'Tactics' SteelPanther Tau 13 20 Feb 2010 02:49
Tau tactics Knight Actual Tau 2 11 Jul 2008 21:54
Bad Tau tactics. lonely tau Tau 58 27 Apr 2006 23:49
Tactics? GRISGIT-warboss Dark Eldar 9 04 Dec 2005 00:25
Tactics vs Tau newbie Orks 15 22 Aug 2005 23:39