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seekers?
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Old 07 May 2005, 21:26   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default seekers?

are seekers better to use on tanks or units ???
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Old 07 May 2005, 21:37   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: seekers?

Frank:

It all comes down the purpose of the Pathfinders (or the Fire Warriors for that matter). A single seeker missile is pretty useless against infantry, so it is better used against tanks. However, what if you don't even damage it? Wasted points. Multiple seekers are needed to accomplish anything with any tangible results other than luck.

However - sometimes, it's really worth while. For example, firing it at a transport with armor 10~11 is a pretty good chance of causing some kind of damage, as you probably will penetrate it. However, against armors of 12+ it becomes less and less worth while trying as you'll waste more seekers than not, trying to bust that piece of armor.

Again units, depending on the type, they can be very, very effective. For example, against Wraithlords, all Marines/Chaos, Necron special units (like Destroyers or Immortals or Pariah), etc. You can really come down hard on these expensive and highly tough models with a salvo of seekers which cost less than the models and remove them in a single swoop with very good probability of doing so.

So keeping this mind, if you use seekers, you should have a use in mind, prior to the game. Taking them against some armies, you'll find a negative result (such as against Tyranid). However, against others, you'll find them to be a secret weapon (such as blasting those 6 man devastator teams off the face of the board). They may also be a great way to get even more utility out of your Fire Warriors against certain vehicles (such as Raiders from the Dark Eldar, or Ork Buggies and Trukkz, which are all fast but low armor and open topped, making it far easier to destroy them in a single shot or at least put them out of business permanently with an immobilized result).

The other thing is finding the happy median between how many seekers to take, versus how many you can use. Sometimes, you may find yourself taking far too many to make up for the price vs other times you may find that you didn't have enough of them!

This changes also depending on where the markerlights are coming from and how many we can unleash in a single round. Fire Warriors with markerlights will only let us send out a single seeker per squad, but it's the cheapest way to get a few markerlights out there while keeping a little utility on the Fire Warriors giving them the ability to have a S8 attack with long range (but it requires a vehicle to mount of course). This means, you probably won't be sending out a salvo of 4 missiles at a time, which means you probably won't be making a huge shock impact on an enemy force (such as pounding a few heavy destroyers out of existence or tearing a devastator team down to it's bare bones). That makes the seekers more of a single shot weapon, which is more useful against single targets, such as a weak transport or "big scary model" such as a character or wraithlord, or big bug for example. Pathfinders on the other hand can unleash plenty of seekers in a single round, making them better at smashing important squads very early on such as devastators or command squads, instead of whittling them away slowly, we can simply punish them in a single round of fire. Doing this, combined with another squad elseware can remove whole groups at once, avoiding drawing out the firing and allowing the squad to cause damage in return while we destroy it. The faster the enemy disappears, the less damage we take. If that's the case, the seekers were a well-paid investment.

It comes down to taste, using some common sense and picking your targets well.
  • [size=7pt]
    Small Edit:

    Think of this: A missile pod is a great weapon on a Crisis suit, so is a plasma rifle, which may only produce how many dead marines or necrons in a full game? Compare that cost of the suit to the cost of an equivalent points value of seeker missiles and think of the amount speed and range and accuracy you get those marine kills with compared to the suit. They're not the best alternatives, but quite useful when you're lacking $100 worth of models for those with a budget in mind. Example - how many marines will a fireknife configured marine hunting crisis suit produce on average per game? Now compare that to 6 instantly dead marines with seekers. It's not a perfect example and I'm not saying to toss out your suits, but I'm just saying it as an alternative and even a challenge to give them a try sometimes as you may find just the surprise, shock and speed of the attack embodies the idea of "Fast Attack" so well that your opponent's will start shooting at them and ignore your other units a little more often for fear of being ripped open by a salvo of seekers which are supposedly "wasted points" compared to other guns.
    [/size]
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Old 07 May 2005, 21:38   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: seekers?

For the most part, units. Tau have plenty of weapons that don't cost 10 pts per shot to deal with tanks; railguns for heavy armor and missiles for transports works just fine (ion works for transports as well).
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Old 07 May 2005, 21:39   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: seekers?

Actually against tyranids they are one of the more useful things to take; with the current rules leaping warriors are a huge part of any nid army, and missile not only ignore their save, they insta kill them. At about 50-55 pts a pop, it is a great idea.
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Old 08 May 2005, 01:13   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: seekers?

ok so then for my 1850 pt army do u think it would be better to take 2 or more seekers?
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Old 08 May 2005, 01:41   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: seekers?

Frank:

That all depends on your army list. It depends on your opponent. It depends on what you want the seekers to do. Give us a short version of your current army list of 1850 points that you may wish to add seekers to? If you don't have pathfinders, 2 or more seekers are fine as you won't be using them very quickly. However, with pathfinders you may find yourself using quite a few very quickly.
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Old 08 May 2005, 02:05   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: seekers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalVeauX
Frank:

That all depends on your army list. It depends on your opponent. It depends on what you want the seekers to do. Give us a short version of your current army list of 1850 points that you may wish to add seekers to? If you don't have pathfinders, 2 or more seekers are fine as you won't be using them very quickly. However, with pathfinders you may find yourself using quite a few very quickly.
Shas'O
FB,PR,MP,HWMT
127pts

6 Stealths
180pts

Crisis Monat
-TLMP
-Flamer
57pts

Crisis Monat
-TLMP
-Flamer
57pts

12 FW
-Shas'Ui
-Devilfish
-DL
-TA
-MT
230pts

12 FW
-Shas'Ui
-Devilfish
-DL
-TA
-MT
230pts

16 Kroot
112pts

8 Pathfinders
-Shas'Ui
-2 RR
-Devilfish
-DL
-TA
-MT
-2 Seekers
246pts

8 Gundrones
96pts

HH
-Rail
-SMS
-TL
-MT
-DL
180pts

HH
-Rail
-SMS
-TL
-MT
-DL
180pts

2 Broadsides
-MT
150pts

1855pts
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Old 08 May 2005, 04:03   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: seekers?

Lose the rail rifles on the PF's, stick with 2 weps on the commander, and maybe try out fireknife on monat suits vrs TLPR. If you are playing nids or marines, take a few missiles. If not, try to figure out if they are using lots of 3+ save units that cost a lot of pts. It really varies :/...
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Old 08 May 2005, 04:11   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: seekers?

what is monat ?
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Old 08 May 2005, 04:53   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: seekers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VV1LD
Lose the rail rifles on the PF's, stick with 2 weps on the commander, and maybe try out fireknife on monat suits vrs TLPR. If you are playing nids or marines, take a few missiles. If not, try to figure out if they are using lots of 3+ save units that cost a lot of pts. It really varies :/...
Actually TLMP Monats are far superior to fireknifes IMO, fireknife works in a team, but one man fireknifes have a habit of not hitting with the gun theyre supposed to :P, TLMP Monats make exellent Transport busters or Harassment suits.

I cant remember why there are RR in there actually :P
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